Foul weather/short range/lightweight rifle?

[Gatorgrizz27]

First, I'm glad to have found this place. It is rare to have so much knowledge and first-hand experience without the name calling/temper tantrums if someone happens to disagree. You guys are truly a cut above.

I live on the east coast and have been hunting for quite some time, and I'm getting to where western hunts are becoming possible rather than just daydreams. I'd like to round out my collection of rifles so that I could grab something out of the safe and hunt anything within reason, as my friends tend to be spontaneous.

I shoot Weatherby Vanguards and plan to stick with them, I prefer keeping them all on the same platform for familiarity, service, etc. My primary hunting rifle is a .30-06 Deluxe with a 3-9x50 scope. I don't mind hunting in the rain with it or it getting character dings, but I wouldn't want to take on hunts where it is likely to get destroyed by being dropped on rocks or spending a week in a tent in the rain, it is on the heavy side at 9 lbs all up also.

My longer range rifle is a synthetic stocked 6.5 Creedmoor with a 3-9x40 scope with turrets. It would be my go-to for pronghorn, aoudad, mule deer, and other medium game with shots out to 500-600 yards, again without extreme weather or terrain.

I also have a .223 carbine with a 20" barrel and a 2-7x33 scope, and really like the lighter weight, the way it handles and the wider field of view at close range. I'm considering replicating that gun in a cartridge with more punch.

Weatherby makes a .308 carbine, same 20" barrel, with factory Cerakote. I could drop it in a better/lighter stock, add a 2-7 scope, and be good to hunt almost anything, anywhere out to 300-400 yards. The 180 Nosler Partition seems like an ideal bullet for close range deer in the woods on up to elk or moose.

Another .30-06 might be the obvious choice, but I'd like a shorter barrel, so it loses most of it's advantage over the .308. The short action rifle is also a little lighter and I wouldn't have to worry about keeping brass/loads separate if I keep neck-sizing only. I'm also not a big fan of recoil, so I don't really want a lightweight magnum, but I may add a heavier-barreled .300 WM if the long range hunting bug gets me.

I'm curious to hear thoughts on a 7 lb all up, Cerakoted .308 with a 2-7 scope for bad conditions or backpack hunting. Any better alternatives to consider or downsides to barrel length, scope or bullet choice? Thanks for any input.

 

[belly-deep]

I think you're on the right track.

If you're going to restock, you might look at the Howa Alpine and save yourself some trouble.

 

[hodgeman]

You've got a lot going on here...
The words "lightweight" and "Vanguard" don't really go together very well. Nothing at all wrong with the Vanguard product or the Howa it's a derivative of, great rifles...but they tend toward the chunky side. Your chances of getting the current Vanguards down to 7 pounds with a scope are pretty slim, 7.5 and a little change is more realistic. Howa's "Alpine" model looks good- a lighter barrel and stock than the Vanguard comes with. I haven't seen one yet but I'm thinking it's close to your specs and Howa makes a nice gun.

Nothing at all wrong with the .308...in modern form it's the same downrange ballistics that made the .30-06's reputation. It also does really well in 20" barrels. I've done a lot of hunting with the .308 and I like it.

I'm also not a fan of the 2-7x for most stuff. Probably nothing you could do with the 2-7x you can't do as well with a 4x or 6x that weighs less and is just simpler to fool with. I'm in the minority on that point I'm sure.

 

[GKPrice]

a Howa Alpine in .308 with lightweight mounts and a Leupold 6 x 36 on top would make a very nice rifle good from 10 yds to 400 yds +/- and farther if you know what you're doing

 

[CorbLand]

I also agree that the only way Vanguard and lightweight go in the same sentence is when there is a "not" in-between. I would look at Howa Alpines or any of the Kimber rifles. They are all solid rifles and are also lightweight. 6.5 CM or 7mm08 would be my caliber of choice. Light recoil but carry enough punch for pretty much any big game animal in the lower 48 out to 500 yards.

You can build a Kimber Hunter in 7mm08, with a Leupold vx2 for right around 6 and 1/3 pounds and in total it will cost you under a grand.

As for dropping things on the rocks, or keeping them in the tent. I have hunted the West my entire life and I can count on zero fingers the amount of times I have dropped my rifle in the rocks. In fact the only blemish on my rifle is the top of the barrel is worn shiny from rubbing on the bottom of the dash board when you are driving from place to place.

 

[ezmorningrebel]

i just recently bought a tikka compact in .308 for similar use. it sports a 2-7x32 nikon scope and with sling comes in just slightly over 7#. the overall length is extremely handy in the woods. only thing it's probably missing from your criteria is the finish and i don't know if they make the compact in stainless. you might also look at a ruger american compact all-weather.

 

[GKPrice]

I also agree that the only way Vanguard and lightweight go in the same sentence is when there is a "not" in-between. I would look at Howa Alpines or any of the Kimber rifles. They are all solid rifles and are also lightweight. 6.5 CM or 7mm08 would be my caliber of choice. Light recoil but carry enough punch for pretty much any big game animal in the lower 48 out to 500 yards.

You can build a Kimber Hunter in 7mm08, with a Leupold vx2 for right around 6 and 1/3 pounds and in total it will cost you under a grand.

As for dropping things on the rocks, or keeping them in the tent. I have hunted the West my entire life and I can count on zero fingers the amount of times I have dropped my rifle in the rocks. In fact the only blemish on my rifle is the top of the barrel is worn shiny from rubbing on the bottom of the dash board when you are driving from place to place.

I had not mentioned Kimber (my fav) because the OP was hung on "Vanguard platform" but really Kimbers make the most sense here

 

[GKPrice]

i just recently bought a tikka compact in .308 for similar use. it sports a 2-7x32 nikon scope and with sling comes in just slightly over 7#. the overall length is extremely handy in the woods. only thing it's probably missing from your criteria is the finish and i don't know if they make the compact in stainless. you might also look at a ruger american compact all-weather.

AND those are both missing 3 function safety

 

[realunlucky]

Little common sense and pointing the barrel in s safe direction may mitigate the need for a three position safety

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[Stid2677]

Might have a look at the Kimber Adirondack in .308, that will be in the weight class you desire and the short barrel is handy in the thick stuff. They changed camo in 2016, so if you look for an older one, they can be bought for around $1200.00

This is mine in 6.5 CM, I did have mine dipped and Cerakoted.

 

[JollyRoger]

AND those are both missing 3 function safety

Was that style of safety a requirement?

Seems like there's several really good options. I'll be following along as I've always liked that this same concept of a short and ultralight 308 for backpacking (that would wear a can potentially). I'd be looking real hard at the Tikka and Kimber models as well as the Savage 16 Lightweight Hunter (5.6lbs, 20", ss/synthetic etc).

 

[16Bore]

Kimber Montana in 308 and 50 round boxes of 155 Laupa Scenars from Graffs. Poke a fork in yourself, because your done. Or a 30-06 Tikka that won't be finicky at all with whatever you shove down the pipe.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

Thanks for the feedback, I should mention that 7 lbs isn't a absolute requirement, just a weight goal. I forgot about the Howa Alpine, it comes in at 5.7 lbs but I'm not a fan of the plastic detachable magazine. With a standard bottom metal it comes in at 6 lbs, which is still fine. The Vanguard Carbine actually has the same 20" #1 contour barrel, but without the action shaving and a much heavier stock. The Vanguard Backcountry comes in at 6.5 lbs with the ultralight stock and a 24" fluted #2 barrel. I had assumed that in the same stock, the 20" #1 barrel would be a bit lighter.

I may look into the Kimbers at some point if it doesn't look like I'll be able to come in under 7.5 lbs, I need to pull my .223 carbine with the same scope out of the stock and weigh it.

I was looking at a fixed 6x scope for awhile, but the 2-7x33 Leupold actually comes in barely lighter, and I find the 2x low end useful for tight wooded areas, as this won't be purely a sheep/goat gun.

The new Vanguards and Howa's have a 3 position safety, but honestly I prefer the 2 position of my older Vanguards. I always point my rifles in a safe direction and shoulder them before taking the safety off and opening the bolt. I have yet to move the safety on my newest Vanguard to the middle position when I'm ready to shoot rather than all the way forward, but I can see it happening at some point.

 

[16Bore]

My 270 Kimber Montana was 6#7oz with fixed 6 Leupold and Talleys. My 30-06 Tikka was 7#2oz with the same glass and mounts.

 

[luke moffat]

What about a savage ultralight in 308? 5.5 pounds, stainless, and a 20" barrel. I would likely go that route over a Kimber hunter to save a few bucks and it already comes in a handy 20" barrel which should be able to toss 200 grainers at 2550 fps and 180s at 2650 if you get a .308 win. Not too shabby for that short of a barrel.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I also really like the vanguards but like everybody else has been saying....they aren't that light.

I really like the vanguard back country and I'll probably get one at some point in 30-06 or 300wm. My buddy has one and it's really accurate and feels good shouldered. You could probably get one built to 7.5lbs.

I've been shooting vanguards for years and recently got one in 375hh which is pretty cool but I'll give another x2 to the suggestion of a kimber, seems like they are about the best thing going for non custom rifles in that pr Fe range.

It would be cool to see somebody get a vanguard back country and make a project out of it, lightening it up etc.

 

[Brendan]

Love my Adirondack .308:

I'm an easterner too, so this will likely end up my go-to eastern deer rifle going forward.

 

[GKPrice]

What about a savage ultralight in 308? 5.5 pounds, stainless, and a 20" barrel. I would likely go that route over a Kimber hunter to save a few bucks and it already comes in a handy 20" barrel which should be able to toss 200 grainers at 2550 fps and 180s at 2650 if you get a .308 win. Not too shabby for that short of a barrel.

^^^^^^^^^^^ what Luke says ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[matthewmt]

^^^^^^^^^^^ what Luke says ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm looking at these currently,

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[Gatorgrizz27]

I also really like the vanguards but like everybody else has been saying....they aren't that light.

I really like the vanguard back country and I'll probably get one at some point in 30-06 or 300wm. My buddy has one and it's really accurate and feels good shouldered. You could probably get one built to 7.5lbs.

I've been shooting vanguards for years and recently got one in 375hh which is pretty cool but I'll give another x2 to the suggestion of a kimber, seems like they are about the best thing going for non custom rifles in that pr Fe range.

It would be cool to see somebody get a vanguard back country and make a project out of it, lightening it up etc.

I was looking at the Backcountry's for awhile, and still may go with one if I can find an older stainless model in .308. The short action ones come in at 6.5 lbs stock, but they all have 24" barrels, which is overkill for a .308 IMO. I'm not sure if the barrel could be cut back to 20" without getting into the fluting, I was considering having the barrel threaded and the thread protecter machined from the fluting transition to keep a clean look, but it's probably not worth the $.

I wish there were more accurate weight specs available on the Vanguards and their components, there are a lot of areas to shave weight but it's hard to compare/estimate without a baseline. The magazine box looks like it is made from 3/16" steel, it could be Swiss cheesed and save close to half the weight, or a new one bent up at home from 16 ga aluminum if your stock was pillar bedded.

Anyone have an idea how much weight is saved from a .308 bore compared to a .224 bore in the same barrel contour? It may be minimal, but it seems like quite a bit of material looking at it from the muzzle end.

I'm glad to hear everyone agrees with the 20" barrel .308 choice. It makes the most sense to me given the trade offs/compromises. For a lightweight gun, a short barrel is an easy way to get there. With a short barrel, you lose velocity/energy, but it's minimal to non-existent in a .308. Lightweight rifles can also kick like a mule, but a .308 is on the mild side of things that are still capable of taking an elk. Go any shorter than 20" and the muzzle blast becomes an issue also.

Any more thoughts on a 180 Partition at 2600 fps or so? Or the VX-2 2-7x33 scope given that it's under 10 oz? I realize it's not too-notch glass but they seem decent to me for shorter range uses, reliability, service, and weight. I'd rather put my optics budget into a pair of binoculars that works with all of my rifles...

I need to go somewhere where I can handle a Kimber in person and see what the weight difference and balance feels like in hand. The newer ones have solved the previous accuracy blunders, or is it still hit and miss?