FORLOH pack launched today!

[Marbles]

Well done to Forloh for continuing to expand your range, and doing it the right way.
American made products with American made materials.
The pack setup looks good. Not modular at all, but it's design is basically very similar to the most popular set-ups with meny of the other top end packs, with alot of the additional extras built in, meaning as others have mentioned your price is actually comparable and so competitive with the only other company currently making 100% US made framed packs, Kifaru.

I'm not even American but I still care where my goods are made, by real people, getting paid real wages, supporting real communities. I wish you continued success.

As has already been covered in this thread, Kifaru products are not Berry compliant, and thus not 100% USA made. Kifaru does not list the information needed to determine if their packs would be, but the use of non-Berry compliant insulation in other products says the commitment to 100% is not there. Mystery Ranch has Berry compliant packs they sell to the US military. There are other companies than manufacturer Berry compliant frame packs for the same market. So, there are companies that make 100% USA frame packs, though Kifaru fails to list Berry compliance and thus cannot be included amongst them. FORLOH does not list Berry compliance, but is very clear on their commitment to US made. I'm pretty sure RECCO is European (Austrian if memory serves), so the inclusion of RECCO reflectors would prevent Berry compliance. I'll assume this is the case and give them a pass.

But, I agree, only Americans are real people with real communities. I feel so guilty every time I drink scotch for supporting fake people and fake communities, I should really switch to bourbon. I comfort myself with the fact that I'm not a gen drinker though. (Tongue in cheek).

 

[Anglo-American]

As has already been covered in this thread, Kifaru products are not Berry compliant, and thus not 100% USA made. Kifaru does not list the information needed to determine if their packs would be, but the use of non-Berry compliant insulation in other products says the commitment to 100% is not there. Mystery Ranch has Berry compliant packs they sell to the US military. There are other companies than manufacturer Berry compliant frame packs for the same market. So, there are companies that make 100% USA frame packs, though Kifaru fails to list Berry compliance and thus cannot be included amongst them. FORLOH does not list Berry compliance, but is very clear on their commitment to US made. I'm pretty sure RECCO is European (Austrian if memory serves), so the inclusion of RECCO reflectors would prevent Berry compliance. I'll assume this is the case and give them a pass.

But, I agree, only Americans are real people with real communities. I feel so guilty every time I drink scotch for supporting fake people and fake communities, I should really switch to bourbon. I comfort myself with the fact that I'm not a gen drinker though. (Tongue in cheek).

Mystery Ranch don't sell their berry compliant packs to civvies as far as I know .
If I'm wrong no doubt you'll let me know.

No, not only Americans.
But I want my products made in my own country.
Or my wife's country.
The countries next to my country.
Not from half way around the world.
If that is wired to you, then congratulations on being a modern man.

Re: Kifaru, I did not know that.

Re: packs in general. The US top four pack companies are the best in the world in my opinion having tried those offered by European companies who are all using Asian fabrics. Asian, all Chinese.

Savotta probably makes the best packs in Europe. They are assembled in Finland, and Estonia, I believe. Personally I prefer the older external frame packs to those, hence then looking to the States.

 

[josef]

Peoples lack of understanding of BERRY on this website is pretty comical.

 

[Marbles]

Mystery Ranch don't sell their berry compliant packs to civvies as far as I know .
If I'm wrong no doubt you'll let me know.

No, not only Americans.
But I want my products made in my own country.
Or my wife's country.
The countries next to my country.
Not from half way around the world.
If that is wired to you, then congratulations on being a modern man.

Re: Kifaru, I did not know that.

Re: packs in general. The US top four pack companies are the best in the world in my opinion having tried those offered by European companies who are all using Asian fabrics. Asian, all Chinese.

Savotta probably makes the best packs in Europe. They are assembled in Finland, and Estonia, I believe. Personally I prefer the older external frame packs to those, hence then looking to the States.

I to prefer products from Five Eyes and Europe (well, some of Europe and depends on the product, i.e. I don't want a French car). I would add Japan as they are an ally and have very good quality. Personally I am fine with the majority of a product being from one of those countries. 100% is a very difficult standard to meet as that tracks down through every step of the supply chain.

This is cited as a civilian version of an MR military pack, but it is listed as Berry compliant. It is also heavy and expensive and not a product that fits my needs. https://www.mysteryranch.com/blackjack-100-pack

Peoples lack of understanding of BERRY on this website is pretty comical.

Explain, though it is Berry, NOT BERRY, as it is named after Ellis Yarnel Berry and is not an acronym.

 

[josef]

I to prefer products from Five Eyes and Europe (well, some of Europe and depends on the product, i.e. I don't want a French car). I would add Japan as they are an ally and have very good quality. Personally I am fine with the majority of a product being from one of those countries. 100% is a very difficult standard to meet as that tracks down through every step of the supply chain.

This is cited as a civilian version of an MR military pack, but it is listed as Berry compliant. It is also heavy and expensive and not a product that fits my needs. https://www.mysteryranch.com/blackjack-100-pack


Explain, though it is Berry, NOT BERRY, as it is named after Ellis Yarnel Berry and is not an acronym.

You can look up the exact details of Berry (great catch btw, sort of a distinction without a difference but whatever) but it doesn’t apply to every product and even every part of a product. For the most part it applies to woven goods and hand tools. In the case of packs stuff like buckles could be imported and the pack could still be classified as Berry compliant. Not sure if insulation counts under Berry (don’t really care) but it’s very possible that it doesn’t and imported insulation could be used on a Berry complaint product. Insulation in clothing does fall under Berry.

I don’t believe my post was directed at you (maybe it was I would need to reread this thread which isn’t going to happen) but most people use “Berry compliant” synonymously with made in USA which it is not. The Chinese made iPhone Im typing this on is Berry compliant as long as it doesn’t come with imported woven goods and imported hand tools (it didn’t , I was happy it even came with a charger).

EDIT: read through some Berry clauses again and all clothing components fall under it so I am editing for correctness. Packs can have components other than woven materials that are imported and still be compliant.

 

[Anglo-American]

I to prefer products from Five Eyes and Europe (well, some of Europe and depends on the product, i.e. I don't want a French car). I would add Japan as they are an ally and have very good quality. Personally I am fine with the majority of a product being from one of those countries. 100% is a very difficult standard to meet as that tracks down through every step of the supply chain.

This is cited as a civilian version of an MR military pack, but it is listed as Berry compliant. It is also heavy and expensive and not a product that fits my needs. https://www.mysteryranch.com/blackjack-100-pack


Explain, though it is Berry, NOT BERRY, as it is named after Ellis Yarnel Berry and is not an acronym.

I love Japanese tools.
The Japs definitely get a pass on my list of top places to buy from.
High trust, low crime society that brings hard work and high level of skill, finish and pride to what they do.
Cars and carpentry tools are two categories I happily and regularly buy from Japan.
And yes, the five eyes but also all across Europe. Specific to packs, modern European packs are all internal. The older external ally and even steel frame packs from WW2 are better, IMO.
Hence, American packs.
Personally I have two old steel frame canvas packs a Bergans of Norway Telemark Bergan and a Swedish LK35, and Kifaru packs.

Switzerland makes some very high end textiles, both synthetic and natural.
Kryptex buy their textiles from Switzerland I believe. The British company, Snugpak gets its insulation (Softie) from there also.
Red Kettle gets its ventile cotton from there also.
So my view isn't as black and white as team Britian or team America and the rest of the world can burn.
But it is definitely not team China or team other random Asian country that had its infrastructure built in the 70's, 80's and 90's with tax payer debt from Western countries for then 80-90% of our industry to move out there. My gripe isn't with the working people of those countries, but I don't want to play along with the Hara kiri either.

"Berry compliance" in reference to US companies is just short hand to all of that stuff and more in my mind.
I can appreciate why it could com across as anoying when people bang on about it in one sense than promote Chinese made gear in the very next breath.
However, to me that comes back to: good, better, best. Do the best we can in our circumstances and the rest can come in time.

Edit: Yeh, definitely don't buy a French car!! There an absolute nightmare.
To be fair to the French though at least they still have their own car industry. Britians was sold off, on the cheap.
Utter disgrace.

 

[Marbles]

You can look up the exact details of Berry (great catch btw, sort of a distinction without a difference but whatever) but it doesn’t apply to every product and even every part of a product. For the most part it applies to woven goods and hand tools. In the case of packs stuff like buckles could be imported and the pack could still be classified as Berry compliant. Not sure if insulation counts under Berry (don’t really care) but it’s very possible that it doesn’t and imported insulation could be used on a Berry complaint product.

I don’t believe my post was directed at you (maybe it was I would need to reread this thread which isn’t going to happen) but most people use “Berry compliant” synonymously with made in USA which it is not. The Chinese made iPhone Im typing this on is Berry compliant as long as it doesn’t come with imported woven goods and imported hand tools (it didn’t , I was happy it even came with a charger).

It does apply to insulation, which is why Climashield makes a Berry compliant insulation. On clothing it applies to all components "other than sensors, electronics, or other items added to, and not normally associated with clothing." So, possibly not a RECCO reflector, but RECCO reflectors are not electronic and are by design associated with clothing, so it would depend on the lawyers who argued it.

Buckles on a pack could depend on the lawyers too, but Berry compliant hardware is made and the "any item of individual equipment" containing textiles would cover the pack meaning it must "have been grown, reprocessed, reused, or produced in the United States." This is held to mean that all inputs into the final product must be US (see PDF).

The Iphone is exempt from Berry. Exempt does not equal compliant. Exempt means the statues does not apply to the item.

Berry also applies to hand tools, measuring tools, and food.

https://www.trade.gov/berry-amendment-implementation

So, I would argue that a Berry compliant product is in fact a USA made and sourced product.

 

[josef]

It does apply to insulation, which is why Climashield makes a Berry compliant insulation. On clothing it applies to all components "other than sensors, electronics, or other items added to, and not normally associated with clothing." So, possibly not a RECCO reflector, but RECCO reflectors are not electronic and are by design associated with clothing, so it would depend on the lawyers who argued it.

Buckles on a pack could depend on the lawyers too, but Berry compliant hardware is made and the "any item of individual equipment" containing textiles would cover the pack meaning it must "have been grown, reprocessed, reused, or produced in the United States." This is held to mean that all inputs into the final product must be US (see PDF).

The Iphone is exempt from Berry. Exempt does not equal compliant. Exempt means the statues does not apply to the item.

Berry also applies to hand tools, measuring tools, and food.

https://www.trade.gov/berry-amendment-implementation

So, I would argue that a Berry compliant product is infact a USA made and sourced product.

Yah I went through and edited my post probably while you were typing this about the insulation. This is really a derail of this thread so Ill sign off after this.

Berry compliant does not make something made or assembled in the USA. The opposite also isnt true. Just because an item is assembled outside of the USA doesnt mean it can not be Berry compliant.

Going back to the iphone, if it were sold with a cloth screen cleaning wipe that was Berry compliant then it would not be Berry exempt and it would also be a made in China Berry compliant product.

I agree with your points when it comes to woven goods and hand tools but people often apply Berry to other products outside of those categories and most often are fairly incorrect in its usage.

 

[aion2come]

Are we any closer to getting the videos that Forloh promised?

 

[Ucsdryder]

Are we any closer to getting the videos that Forloh promised?

I know there’s a review in the works. I had the chance to spend a significant amount of time with the pack loaded with ~60 pounds of sand and gear. I’ve been sworn to secrecy and threatened with blackmail so I can’t post up anything, but the review is going to be excellent. The amount of time and energy the reviewer spent with the pack is impressive.

 

[92xj]

Is the reviewer taller than 5’9” and have extensive history with a pack with a 24”-26” frame from Stone glacier, Exo or Kifaru?

 

[sndmn11]

Is the reviewer taller than 5’9” and have extensive history with a pack with a 24”-26” frame from Stone glacier, Exo or Kifaru?

2/3rds of the testers fit that mold with the exception of experience with Exo. Discussion thread for the review --> https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/forloh-method-backpack-test-and-review-in-progress.270810/

 

[92xj]

2/3rds of the testers fit that mold with the exception of experience with Exo. Discussion thread for the review --> https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/forloh-method-backpack-test-and-review-in-progress.270810/

10-4, thanks

 

[Ucsdryder]

Is the reviewer taller than 5’9” and have extensive history with a pack with a 24”-26” frame from Stone glacier, Exo or Kifaru?

10-4, thanks

I have significant experience with kifaru, and using it to pack in heavy camps and pack out heavy loads of animals. I’m 6 feet 185…not my review but I was allowed lots of input and a few glamour shots.

 

[aion2come]

I'd be interested in photos with loads of 80-100 lbs.

 

[roosiebull]

No problem, we will get some content made showing larger folks wearing it. I will actually be out on my elk hunting ranch doing some field testing of other future launching products in 3 weeks and will have one of my monster buddies come up and we will do a comparison video from me 5ft 10in 33 in waist to him 6.5ft 40+in waist. I’ll show you wear your focus should be on centering load and how our adjustments take that into consideration. Our frame acts as an exo-skeleton and moves with the body, not overly rigid as traditional pack construction dictated. This allows for a more comfortable ride and less sway.

i want to see you guys build a pack that i'm confident will work, but you have to understand, many of us have graduated from terrible packs/frames that didn't fit right (trying to save money in the early days, and the past lack of legit hauling frames/packs)

the pics we have seen showed some heavy loads riding very awkwardly on field testers, those pics show the pack is strong enough to carry the weight, but also show there is no way it's comfortable with 100lbs in it.... frame height matters, there is no design that's going to change it.

if you take the replies here as constructive criticism, you can build a pack we want to buy, but if you are stuck on that design being the answer, you are going to sell most of your packs to loyal customers, and maybe some people who don't know.

i think the 22" frame as your one size fits all is a mistake for the bulk of experienced backpack hunters, especially at the price, because i would bet a lot of money that pack would not be my most comfortable pack with 100# in it on my back.

if you guys are confident in your design, make the small changes to make it attractive to us (taller frame being the standout) regardless of design, the load lifter angle matters.... a lot.

i want to buy one of your packs, but i'm just not interested in a 22" frame, 24" is a compromise for me, 26" would be better, but i don't want another 2" of frame sticking up hanging up in the brush all day... if a 22" frame was good enough, i would only own 22" frames, they are nice on the coast in the brush.... that's just one generic design feature, but to me, it's a big one, especially for the price..... i have no problem justifying the price if i'm confident it will be a useful pack, i like that it's light and waterproof, i like what you guys stand for, but this first gen pack isn't for me.

 

[Wilderlife]

I'm super keen to see some of these tests and reviews now. The materials and overall design look really cool, but actually seeing the thing being used and evaluated effectively it what we all need.

The whole thing is a little bit putting the cart before the horse. There are probably countless people who could have done a bunch of this stuff and had the information ready to go so when the official launch happened there was a lot of great content and information out there. It feels very awkward (to me at least) that they have some nice overview videos regarding design on their YouTube channel nut right now, there is nothing the consumer can access that says the stuff actually works.

That's not to say it doesn't work, either. It's just an observation.

 

[aion2come]

No problem, we will get some content made showing larger folks wearing it. I will actually be out on my elk hunting ranch doing some field testing of other future launching products in 3 weeks and will have one of my monster buddies come up and we will do a comparison video from me 5ft 10in 33 in waist to him 6.5ft 40+in waist. I’ll show you wear your focus should be on centering load and how our adjustments take that into consideration. Our frame acts as an exo-skeleton and moves with the body, not overly rigid as traditional pack construction dictated. This allows for a more comfortable ride and less sway.

I'm interested how these videos turned out? By the date on your post, this would have happened almost two weeks ago. I'm interested both in how this fits different sized people, and how it fits those people with 80-100 lbs. Hoping the frame isn't bent backwards as it was in your prototype picture.

 

[ForlohFamily]

FORLOH - Cyber Week Sale!

FORLOH | 100% Made in the USA | Hunting & Outdoor Clothing & Gear

Premium manufacturer of American-made jackets, pants, shirts, and tops for camping, fishing, hiking, hunting, watersports and other outdoor activities partners with Willie Robertson, best known for starring in and executive producing A&E's Duck Dynasty. He is also the founder of Buck Commander &...

forloh.com

 

[bluemaroon]

@ForlohFamily did you ever get the reviews and videos completed? The video on the website only shows someone inside and not outdoors packing an animal.

I was at Houston Safari Club show earlier this afternoon and was hoping you'd have the pack in the booth to try out but unfortunately I was there before the pack arrived with Andy. At the booth, the rep mentioned using it on a Colorado hunt but unfortunately the hunt wasn't successful so she didn't get experience with it loaded in a pack out.

On the positive side, I really like the true Made-in-America and materials aspect as well as the pack using the same material as the 3L jacket I've used the past few years. Also, I noticed you now offer a 26" frame from the 22" which may relieve some of the concerns by many commentators here.

I have a lot of your clothing which has been excellent in rain/cold/snow conditions (and thorns/cactus in WTX) but for such a critical piece of gear like a pack I am really hesitant without seeing more field experience.

At the price and critical nature of the pack, I really want to be sure the concerns on the frame are answered. As others have stated, there are other Made in America (or at least very close) options with proven packs but I would like to consider Forloh as well.