FORLOH pack launched today!

[Marbles]

22” inch frame isn’t going to allow any load lifting for taller folks like me….and $825 - more expensive than any other…..Kifaru, SG, EXO, SO, etc. looks like some nice features but I think at that price point there are to many other proven options….wish you the best with this project.

I'm not even tall (5'10") and a 24 inch frame is too short for 50+ pounds, a 26 inch frame is needed to comfortably carry 100+ pounds. Day packs work with 22 inch frames though as the load is under 30 pounds.

 

[Marbles]

I’m guessing the RECCO sensor is part of the high price tag. Interesting idea.

A RECCO reflector costs $30. It is just a reflector. RECCO is better than nothing, but engines, keys, metal in the environment (or the rock), Etc also reflect the signal. Don't get me wrong, I have added RECCO to some of my gear, but it is a last line to help with body recovery. I carry actual signaling devices to help with rescue.

 

[Marbles]

I think supporting "Made in the USA" is fine and laudable. But - IMHO - there are nuances. If the decision of whether to support or not can turn on 100% vs. 99% USA components, should we limit the analysis to materials and labor, or should we expand to looking at the citizenship and residence of owners (including passive investors), method of transportation of materials and personnel, the equipment they use to make and advertise the product, take orders, etc.? Those seem like ridiculous inquiries to me, but I think that some would say the same about saying a pack isn't 100% USA Made if it contains a snap or zipper sourced outside of the USA.

Even focusing on just materials can have unintended consequences. I have a friend who is one of two owners of a company that makes outdoor and other products. The owners are US citizens and residents, and they are vets. But if they make all of their gear with *only* pure USA materials, then it limits their offering, increases their costs, and may limit them from being able to hire other US employees. And maximizing profit could be characterized as greed, but for a startup, it's sometimes the difference between survival and failure.

Said better than I could. It is funny because Kifaru uses Climashield Apex in its jackets, but Climashield does not list the Apex insulation as Berry Compliant (only Climashield Combat and Climashield FR-SH). Considering the sworn statement that the use of non-US materials is strictly motivated by profit, I guess Kifaru has sold out and is thus no longer worthy of our business or the premium price tag for 100% USA.

I have no idea...whatever it is I can promise the reason that they outsource whatever they outsource is 100% related to profit margin.

Edit: Where does Kifaru currently state Berry Compliance on their website? I'm having a hard time finding it.

Edit again: Per a google search of kifaru.net ("berry" "site:kifaru.net") the word berry is never mentioned on their website. Which brings into question if they are actually Berry Compliant currently as you would expect them to be proud of the fact if they were.

Third edit: The shaker cup prominently gets labeled "US sourced and made," but not the packs. Infact, searching the wording US sourced only brings up the cup on Kifaru's site for me. https://kifaru.net/store/logo-gear/drinkware/shaker-bottles/rhino-shaker-bottle/

FORLOH does a good job of being very clear on were everything they make is made and sourced. However, they do not state Berry compliance. It begs the question, are the components they use actually Berry Compliant? Do not get me wrong, I like US made, but if the standard is 100%, than anything short of Berry Compliance (meaning Berry Compliant components) is the only thing that qualifies, then the use of US made, non-Berry Compliant materials (such as Climashield Apex) disqualifies a company from being 100%.

 

[tdhanses]

View attachment 418002

Omg does that look painful!

 

[307]

Omg does that look painful!

That photo is certainly worth a thousand words.

On second thought, that photo is worth 10 thousand words. It will take at least that many to undo the damage.

 

[sndmn11]

This will come off sounding rude and I know we are supposed to take it easy on the sponsors, but if you’re going to survive in this market honest feedback is better than flattery from friends and paid employees.

That painful pic makes me question if you have much experience in packing out animals (albeit a “prototype”).

Everything you said, yes. The two new pack companies that have tried here touted their pocket layout and pack bag features. A pack created from experience would tout the frame.

 

[sr80]

Whats going on here? Looks like the frame is bending backwards...

 

[TheTone]

Wilderness pack specialties is also 100% made in the USA. BERRY compliant also.

ABOUT | Wilderness Pack Specialties | United States

Wilderness Pack Specialties began with one goal: to create a line of 100% American Made, Berry-compliant, rugged backpacks and equipment designed solely for the hunt. Since 1995, our pack line has thrived under all conditions from the mountains of Afghanistan to Yukon moose hunting in the Arctic Cir

www.wildernesspacks.net

Looks like they use a molle2 frame and either the same frame as outdoorsmans or a knock off of it

This place can be brutal/silly at times; here is a post from a site sponsor announcing a new product and all it does is get crapped on by a bunch of people that have never seen it or use it

 

[Poser]

Looks like they use a molle2 frame and either the same frame as outdoorsmans or a knock off of it

This place can be brutal/silly at times; here is a post from a site sponsor announcing a new product and all it does is get crapped on by a bunch of people that have never seen it or use it

I understand your criticism of the criticism here, HOWEVER, any trained eye can look at the image above and recognize that either the pack is fit severely improperly or the pack is not designed effectively for its intended purposes.

I bought an Exo without seeing or using it back in 2014. Still in use. Most people who buy SG, Kifaru or EXO do the same since “seeing one” or “using one” is often not an option and we know that all 3 designs have positive angle load lifters and a frame long enough and strong enough to support as much weight as we’ll ever expect to carry. With DTC brands, marketing images and reviews are often all we get to work with.

So, criticisms may be harsh, but do physics apply to pack designs. Let’s not be bootlickers either.

 

[ForlohFamily]

Whats going on here? Looks like the frame is bending backwards...

That photo you are refencing was our second prototype that went into the test field. After that we had about 4 more prototypes that went out into the field before we have the current pack today. If you get the chance to come check out the pack in person, I would highly recommend it.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Tough crowd.

I smell a Cliff Test coming...

In all seriousness, I wish Forloh the best of luck. I'm sure they'll be more successful with the "non die-hard" hunter demographic with this specific bag and frame. But companies posting on RS really should have all their ducks in a row and squared away before they release a product to this site, because a lot of guys here know their shit and not many products, if any, are gonna squeek through this crowd unless theyre legit. Guys here will definitely spend $825 for a pack, but it needs to be the absolute best at that price. I can't think of anywhere on the internet where a more collective group of people have more backcountry hunting experience than RS. Just be ready for the crucible when you introduce a new pack to this site is my only suggestion....

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[Mojave]

UltraPE is simply the pinnacle of performance for a backpack fabric. The face fabric simply is not made in the US. We always try to source US first, but if what we think is the best is NOT made in the US, then we go where it is made. Sometimes, the capability you desire, simply is not here for some reason.

This is a common problem. American textile companies are not making comparable products.

Japan's fabric industry is amazing. So is the Schoeller Swiss fabric.

 

[trophyhill]

Im liking what I'm seeing in the clothing line. I need some of that light weight rain gear.

As for the cheapskates who don't want to buy claiming high prices, you're looking at it all wrong. For example i probably have $1,000 wrapped up in my Hoodlum w/accessories. As much as i use it, if it lasts 10 years, which i have no doubt it will plus a lot longer I'm sure, it costs me $100 a year for 10 years and many hunts and meat hauls, is well worth the advantage this pack gives me over probably any other pack out there today.

Ima be looking hard at FORLOH' clothing line pretty quick.

 

[Marbles]

Im liking what I'm seeing in the clothing line. I need some of that light weight rain gear.

As for the cheapskates who don't want to buy claiming high prices, you're looking at it all wrong. For example i probably have $1,000 wrapped up in my Hoodlum w/accessories. As much as i use it, if it lasts 10 years, which i have no doubt it will plus a lot longer I'm sure, it costs me $100 a year for 10 years and many hunts and meat hauls, is well worth the advantage this pack gives me over probably any other pack out there today.

Ima be looking hard at FORLOH' clothing line pretty quick.

No, we spend money on gear. I have 3 down jackets. I have a really hard time paying the same for 650 FP down in a product that does not even list fill weight and has no hood as for 900 FP down with probably more fill and a hood (still US made, but imported material). If 900 FP down was used and proper specs where listed I would consider paying more for US sourced materials. Or charge the same for 750-800 FP down.

I have a really hard time paying more than the cost of my S90V Benchmade Altitude (an expensive steel that eats tooling, steel and knife are US made) for a knife made of CPM 154 (an easily workable mid grade steel, close to 440c) with a 50 cent Paracord handle that I could wrap myself (not to mention poorly designed geometry, 0.18 is too thick for the spine of a small knife). There is a difference between being cheap and knowing what things are worth.

My problem is between the pack, the knives, and the down (things I know a little about) I cannot find a reason to trust them not to overcharge on the things I don't know about.

Now it is time to get back to being a cheapskate, at least until I can buy NL Pure binos, S&B scopes, and RSS tripods. Zeiss and NF are for plebs, and the Suri carbon tripod is for trailer trash or worse.

 

[Mojave]

Sacrificing quality at the expense of being American made to me is stupid. It is quasi-socialism. Kind of like the Outfitter Tag set asides.

The standard American made business model
1. I have decided to make a widget in America. This widget is currently made in Japan, the Phillipines or Eastern Europe by other companies and is of better quality.
2. This widget will cost 150-200% more than the same product made in another first world country.
3. This widget will cost 800-1000% more than the same product made in a developing country.
4. My materials are inferior because no one worth a damn in the USA manufactures the materials to source the widget in America.
5. I will call everyone a communist who dares to buy another product, even though it is cheaper, of higher quality, and has a better design.
6. 2-3 years of poor business planning and half ass marketing my company will go under because I couldn't compete in quality or price with someone cheaper.

 

[bsnedeker]

Sacrificing quality at the expense of being American made to me is stupid. It is quasi-socialism. Kind of like the Outfitter Tag set asides.

The standard American made business model
1. I have decided to make a widget in America. This widget is currently made in Japan, the Phillipines or Eastern Europe by other companies and is of better quality.
2. This widget will cost 150-200% more than the same product made in another first world country.
3. This widget will cost 800-1000% more than the same product made in a developing country.
4. My materials are inferior because no one worth a damn in the USA manufactures the materials to source the widget in America.
5. I will call everyone a communist who dares to buy another product, even though it is cheaper, of higher quality, and has a better design.
6. 2-3 years of poor business planning and half ass marketing my company will go under because I couldn't compete in quality or price with someone cheaper.

Please, enlighten us with all your experience with Forloh....they have poor quality???? That's interesting...what experience with Forloh products leads you to this conclusion? There are many threads on this forum talking about Forloh...universally they have been praised for their high quality.

No one has their hands on this pack yet, and you can critique the design as much as you want, but you are here criticizing their quality, so when did you get your hands on this pack in order to make such an accusation?

Or...and I'm just guessing here....are you an internet tough guy projecting his insecurities onto a company that he has no experience with?

 

[amassi]

That photo you are refencing was our second prototype that went into the test field. After that we had about 4 more prototypes that went out into the field before we have the current pack today. If you get the chance to come check out the pack in person, I would highly recommend it.

Whomever is in charge of rolling out the media associated with this pack needs to be fired.
Post pics of the other 4 prototypes and their improvements, then post a pic of the pack you're selling loaded down.
This isn't rocket science. Why in the world would anyone come check your product out in person at your store when you guys so far have shown some empty packs field frolicking and a total prototype failure.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[WeiserBucks]

I think the prototype failure photo could be marketed differently, something along the lines of "During early prototype testing, our initial design showed unacceptable performance and its deficiencies were eliminated in future designs" bla bla bla something like that. It takes huge balls for a company to post pictures of failure, but there needs to be some kind of evidence of improvement and demonstration of the viability of the current product.

 

[Mojave]

Please, enlighten us with all your experience with Forloh....they have poor quality???? That's interesting...what experience with Forloh products leads you to this conclusion? There are many threads on this forum talking about Forloh...universally they have been praised for their high quality.

No one has their hands on this pack yet, and you can critique the design as much as you want, but you are here criticizing their quality, so when did you get your hands on this pack in order to make such an accusation?

Or...and I'm just guessing here....are you an internet tough guy projecting his insecurities onto a company that he has no experience with?

Didn’t say a thing about forloh fan boy. Not once did I mention them

Universal problem with American made outdoor gear.

 

[bsnedeker]

Didn’t say a thing about forloh fan boy. Not once did I mention them

Universal problem with American made outdoor gear.

So, you have zero experience with the brand we are talking about IN THIS THREAD THAT YOU RESPONDED TO.

Thanks for confirming that your opinion is completely meaningless, as if that wasn't already obvious.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk