Forest Service HQ Move

[TheTone]

Good. Like wildfires haven't been researched to death long ago while becoming
more of a problem every year.

Logging and strategic clearcutting would end these "fire seasons" that we are now
subject to every year. But doing that would expose just how much of a scam the
"management of our forests" has been. And lots of people would need to get
real productive jobs outside government (< but that's redundant).

Weird that every fire near me the past few years has been in logged or heavily managed forests. A fire absolutely rips through even age regen and pre commercial thinning jobs

 

[mt terry d]

Weird that every fire near me the past few years has been in logged or heavily managed forests. A fire absolutely rips through even age regen and pre commercial thinning jobs

Please define "heavily managed and "pre commercial thinning jobs"

Were the FS roads clear for fire equipment and the public allowed to collect firewood at will?
Were the fires "monitored" before attempts to stop them?
Were clearcuts implemented to create natural fire stops and added habitat for wildlife?

 

[TheTone]

Please define "heavily managed and "pre commercial thinning jobs"

Were the FS roads clear for fire equipment and the public allowed to collect firewood at will?
Were the fires "monitored" before attempts to stop them?
Were clearcuts implemented to create natural fire stops and added habitat for wildlife?

Firewood permits have been free for a few years here; heavily managed I’d consider super high road open density, a mix of FS, state, and timber company lands all of them cutting heavily and replanting, plus spraying anything that grows back on its own. Pre commercial thinning, meaning go into the regen 10-15 years after planting and cut down 1/2 or more of the trees and just leave them lay where they fell. It’s a super nightmare to try and walk through and always comical when they post signs saying it’s a high fire danger right after

 

[mt terry d]

Sounds like they need to do some slash pile burns in winter/wet season.
They admit they're creating a fire risk.

What state? What approximate diameter do trees there reach in 10-15 years?
Free firewood permits? Wow, must be nice !!

 

[Newk]

Don’t like how it’s getting moved into Mike Lee’s sphere of influence. Don’t trust anything this admin is doing with regard to our lands.

 

[wowzers]

The question is can it be reformed to prevent what’s it’s being used for and what the intent of it is?

Personally I don't see anyone in Congress actually fixing it. As far as your question, I think it could. It wasn't designed for 501(C)3's to file an endless stream of suits year after year. Ending the award for interrelated claims ( where they sue on ten different NEPA items but get found in favor on one) would go along in reducing the money that the lawyers are able to get and thus disincentivizing them.

Chris French lays out how detrimental these frivolous suits are.

 

[Jason Snyder]

In my little corner of the world I'm surrounded by National Forest and have recreated in it for over 60 years. I can say with certainty that the model they are working with doesn't work. Our regional and local administrative are rabid enviros that want nothing but hands off management. The complete roads system has seen no maintenance for over 35 years and 90% of roads are not passable and just brushed over. Even main arteries are washed out / slides etc. and no one will fix them. No logging, just watch over ripe timber burn to ashes every year while a whole stack of Forest service employees that have gotten their liberal arts degree drive around in new trucks and tape flag noxious weeds and run flagging though the woods for years on end and NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. Just how many botanist does an office need to flag a star thistle? It's time to have a reckoning.

Did you ever stop to think it maybe because there is no funding for road maintenance?

 

[wowzers]

Did you ever stop to think it maybe because there is no funding for road maintenance?

That’s really not true. I can think of one road system that has had probably 60 million board feet pass through it in the last ten years, and with that the associated deferred maintenance deposits collected for those sales. I’m not sure the USFS has done anything as far as maintenance on that road with those dollars.

 

[Jason Snyder]

That’s really not true. I can think of one road system that has had probably 60 million board feet pass through it in the last ten years, and with that the associated deferred maintenance deposits collected for those sales. I’m not sure the USFS has done anything as far as maintenance on that road with those dollars.

I can’t speak to this specific road and how maintenance funding works for it. Typically timber sale money goes into a revenue account. Road maintenance money has to be allocated by Congress and signed by the POTUS. The FS is under an enormous backlog of road maintenance with a fraction of the funding it needs to tread water.

 

[Jason Snyder]

A retired FS Chief told me they viewed this as an 8 on a scale of 1-10 (1 is nothing burger and 10 is doomsday) with respect to future public land management.

Those of you who thing logging is the silver bullet to cure all, look around. How many mills are still open and running? How profitable is the potential timber sale? How does clear cutting or selective logging more remote forest service lands affect the fire risk in the suburban/foothill interface?

Research is about more than just fires. It’s also about elk and deer movements with respect to non consumptive use impacts. For example, mountain biking during elk calving.

I know there are a lot of stories about environmental whackos in the FS. I’ve met a couple. But, by and large the majority of FS folks I know are great folks who love the landscape. Our public land trust is an incredible treasure that won’t come back if it’s lost.

 

[TheTone]

Sounds like they need to do some slash pile burns in winter/wet season.
They admit they're creating a fire risk.

What state? What approximate diameter do trees there reach in 10-15 years?
Free firewood permits? Wow, must be nice !!

Idaho

Interesting you mention slash burning; the FS around me is the only one doing any real burning anymore. They will burn an entire clear cut prior to replanting, state will burn some piles but leaves lots of slash on the hills, private companies aren’t doing much of anything except spraying lots of herbicide killing anything that tries to grow back on its own.

Maybe I was a little off on tree age for the thinning work but trees are typically 10-20 feet tall and ridiculously thick when thinned. They tend to plant at a significantly higher rate than what density was at prior harvest