Force Fetch vs Hold Conditioning vs ??

[ShakeDown]

Hi all,

Curious on people’s viewpoints on training a dog to Hold. What Is your opinion? Your experience?

Just doing initial research and looking for avaiable perspective.

Thanks!

 

[JBrew]

I've had dogs that required FF and some that didn't need anything more than some reinforcement. Dog dependent IMO. But if there's any doubt or question...FF

 

[WoodDuck]

I am in the process of conditioning my 1yo black lab right now. She is a fairly dominant (stubborn) dog and doesn’t react much to praise, so hold conditioning has been a slow process. We are on week 7 or 8 of two sessions a day and she is now holding reliably while heeling and recalling across the yard.

What she doesn’t have yet is opening her mouth on command, and most times I have to force her mouth open to insert the buck (did I mention she is stubborn?). Because of this, I will start using force in the next day or two to get her to fetch and hold on command, even though I followed the hold conditioning process.

I do think hold conditioning would have produced a finished product if she was a softer dog. Also keep in mind this is my first pup, so experience may have come into play.

 

[displacedtexan]

What kind of dog? What are you going to be doing with it?

 

[WRO]

I'm not a big fan of it for pointing dogs that have natural retrieve going already.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[wind gypsy]

My sole experience was with a stubborn male lab but I played the dog games and trained with lots of other folks at various retriever clubs.

Force fetching was the foundation for so much with my retriever that I can't see skipping it.

 

[Buzby]

I can’t see any reason to not FF a dog that you want to retrieve game. To me an ethical hunter should make every attempt to retrieve game, this includes the use of a reliable retriever. I like the term “trained retrieve” better, because some people think that FF has to be some big dog beating session. The amount of correction will depend entirely on the individual dog. Some will require very little. A dog that is a natural retriever could progress through the process very quickly. Most dogs will retrieve when they want to. That’s not reliable enough for me. I also believe that if done properly, it will help your bond with the dog and set you up for a more obedient dog, with no negative side effects.

 

[WRO]

I can’t see any reason to not FF a dog that you want to retrieve game. To me an ethical hunter should make every attempt to retrieve game, this includes the use of a reliable retriever. I like the term “trained retrieve” better, because some people think that FF has to be some big dog beating session. The amount of correction will depend entirely on the individual dog. Some will require very little. A dog that is a natural retriever could progress through the process very quickly. Most dogs will retrieve when they want to. That’s not reliable enough for me. I also believe that if done properly, it will help your bond with the dog and set you up for a more obedient dog, with no negative side effects.

I'm guessing you're a lab guy.

I have a gwp that was a great retriever FF her and she completely stopped retrieving, I've seen it with a couple setters as well.

 

[*zap*]

One way is electric collar on a very low level of continuous stimulation..and a training table.

 

[Bear_Hunter]

I would look into materials produced by professionals on the subject. They have whole programs for this. Bill Hillman and Evan Graham are a couple. I got Evan Grahams Smart Fectch book and followed that one with my pup.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I force fetched - but used a mild version of it. Best thing I ever did.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I've had dogs that required FF and some that didn't need anything more than some reinforcement. Dog dependent IMO. But if there's any doubt or question...FF

This pretty much sums it up. My current chessie was way to soft to FF but ended up not needing it anyway. My labs all needed it

 

[KurtR]

Only dealt with labs but it is the foundation of a finished dog.

 

[Buzby]

I'm guessing you're a lab guy.

I have a gwp that was a great retriever FF her and she completely stopped retrieving, I've seen it with a couple setters as well.

I’m a Draht guy.

I’m guessing you used too much correction with your dog. You can “force fetch” dog with very little forcing. It’s not really any different than teaching a dog to sit, or anything else. The main thing is training to a point of reliablity, and not just the dog retrieving when it wants to.

Retrieving is usually not a priority for breeders of setters.

 

[Dx. Luvinz]

Hi all,

Curious on people’s viewpoints on training a dog to Hold. What Is your opinion? Your experience?

Just doing initial research and looking for avaiable perspective.

Thanks!

possible option ...

 

[ShakeDown]

I appreciate all the input!

Just collecting data right now, but for the person that asked: Labrador Retriever. General hunting dog, primarily upland.

 

[adieatrick]

I had my 6 month old chocolate lab responding to force fetch in one afternoon. He is 10 months old now and if I tell him to hold he will literally carry that bird out of the field if I asked him.

 

[mwebs]

I did this last year. Place a wooden dowel or other piece of wood in their mouth, making sure gums and such are not in the way, all while saying hold and placing pressure on the bottom jaw to keep the hold in place. I wouldn’t say drop and allow her to release unless she was calm and stopped trying to spit it. Eventually use less pressure and they will realize if they just keep it in their mouth everything is fine. You need to be quick to the drop command so you can set them up for success and praise then build from there. Then you can make them hold and walk away and recall while holding, then your off to the races. Once it becomes normal you can do it with the bumper, then introduce it while retrieving to hand. Make sure you give a hand out target saying hold and it should come right to your hand. Otherwise sit them down make them hold and then drop. I liked this vs traditional FF. Everyone has there own opinion and nuances, traditional FF is popular for a reason and obviously works. I just wanted to try a different way and it worked quickly.

 

[GrayGoose]

Echoing what bear_hunter said. Find reputable training material that will match your training style and the desired skills you want in your lab.

I also used the smart works program with my female lab (ducks and pheasants) with great success. First time training a lab on my own and force fetching. For me, the program was nice and made ff easy since it was laid out in a natural progression.

Good luck!

 

[KurtR]

Freddy kings total retriever trainer is 60 dollars with videos from pup to grand dog and covers everything very well for a first time trainer. He will answer any questions to.