FMJ and FOC

[Mmcan]

I shoot a HeliM 70lbs /29" draw
Current arrow setup is FMJ 340 spine w 100gr tips
495 grains
Chrono 272fps
FOC 10%

I really like the way this shoots for hogs out to 35-40 yards.

But I'm planning an elk hunt this September and have been reading about FOC, and how it might be beneficial on elk to have a higher FOC.

So I'm considering increasing the weight of my broad head.

Is there a reference that details how heavy I can go safely w the current set up?
Do any of you have experience shooting similar set ups with 200 grain heads (or inserts to make it 200 grains)?

The Ashby info is mind boggling, and I don't know that I want to shoot >20% or "extreme FOC". But I would like to get it into the high teens to see how they fly and penetrate.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[BackcountryMT]

At your specs you would have to step into a .300" spine to begin playing with an FOC in the high teens. While a higher FOC does make for a better hunting arrow IMHO, you have plenty of arrow for elk.

 

[mAv]

Running a very similar setup across the board and it will be my elk arrow. Not sure that means a whole lot as this will be my first elk season, but I'm comfortable with it and it shoots very well.

 

[Mmcan]

As I stated, I really like how it shoots. And i've thought about going to 300 spine as well.
Probably psyching myself out about the FOC issue. At some point it just has to be accepted as being "good enough".

So gonna have to remember,...
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
And
The enemy of "good" is "better".

 

[BroodBuster]

I just added a 125 grn broad head which got me to about 12% FOC. It helped with accuracy at 40-60yds.

 

[Mmcan]

Just ordered some 125 Strickland helix broad heads actually.

 

[Beendare]

MM, you should easily be able to go up to 125gr heads with your setup. I shoot similar- 70# 29.5" raw and have used 340's but been shooting 300's for a long time- I think the stiff arrow helps with a lot of things.

Re FOC and EFOC- The ashby stuff on penetration is great. I think he fails to quantify the EFOC stuff in his research. I've played with all sorts of FOC #'s from 10% to 305 and in actual accuracy testing the high efoc didn't help and only made more critical and my accuracy with BH suffered a little. Thats just my experience. My arrows are in the 16% range +/- and I don't worry about it anymore as my 496gr arrow blasts through everything so fast they hardly know they are hit. I've blown through elk scapulas with my arrow 50 yds past in the dirt. Part of it is using an efficient BH but with the added weight- it increases the efficiency of all heads.

Much of Ashby tests is with Trad equipment...and this is going to sound like a crack...but many of the trad guys have a hard time telling what is going on with longer range accuracy [myself included!] Its the nature of stickbows that there are very few guys stacking hunting weight arrows at 50yds. Anyway, I have nothing but respect for Ashby- just can't get on board with EFOC for compounds and single bevel heads that have a less supported edge.

Perfect arrow flight is the key and if you get that with 10%, 12%....or 20%- you're golden!

 

[amp713]

I switched from FMJ's to DCA (deercrossingarchery.com you can use promo code Austin66 for 10% off anything on the sight) SD arrows and am loving the change. You could run 300 spine with 30 grain outserts and a regular 100 gr broadhead and it could possibly run you close to what you are after you can add a 125 gr broad head to have 160 gr out front on a small diameter higher GPI arrow so you can really stretch the FOC if you want.

I will say that if you have the oppurtunity to hunt lots of hogs you have the perfect chance to test arrows! Record how far you shot, penetration, if bone was a factor and things like that and you can quickly figure out what works good and what doesnt! My biggest question is why are you wanting to change? Are you not seeing good penetration on hogs? I dont have experience with hogs so i cant weigh in on elk versus hog but playing with an arrow to the point of it becoming less accurate for you is obviously not good. If you can shoot very accurate with your current set up and can stick the arrow where there is no bone on an elk then I personally dont see a lot of reason to switch.. But thats just me! Lots of great info here to toy with!

 

[Mmcan]

I actually get great penetration with hogs with this arrow. Using a GrizzTrick2, I have a picture of a 70lb pig I shot at 30 yds that was quartering to me (will try to upload it from another computer). Arrow blasted thru the right scapula, ribs, and lodged itself in the left femur. When I pulled the arrow, it made the leg move as well, which really surprised me. Side shots aimed low pass thru both lungs although higher shots on bigger pigs don't pass thru as well. And damn is it fun to hunt them!

As I said earlier, I'm probably reading/worrying too much about FOC. What I have works well, but having never hunted elk, I thought I'd try to take advantage of anything I could. I'm not at all averse to spending the money to get better gear if it's going to improve performance. The Ashby info left me wanting the higher FOC is all.

I plan to take a hog and test shoot several heads into it next time I go out to the lease and will post my results.

 

[Mmcan]

So let me ask this,...

If you had the choice of arrows that have the same spine and weighed the same (495-500gr), would you pick the one with an FOC 10%, 15%, 20%?

 

[oct71]

I'd try the 15% one first and see how it shot. Experiment with them and find out which setup works the best.

 

[Schleppy]

Good thread. I have been deer hunting with 100 grn heads and Maxima 350's with great results. I want to put my best foot forward for elk hunting this fall and I also bought the helix 125 grn and the 175 grn to test out. I have a 27.5 inch draw and about a 29 inch arrow. I inherited some superlight ACC 340's that I'm planning on trying. I'm wondering if I'm going to have to go to a 300 spine to shoot those 175 grn heads or not. It seems like a lot of guys are shooting the FMJ's with the brass inserts and putting at least 175grn up front. Anyone shooting a heavy head on the ACC superlights?

 

[Mmcan]

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15912&d=1399668737&thumb=1&stc=1

This little guy was running toward me on a trail. He stopped about 30 yards away and I let my arrow fly. Hit dead on where I had aimed. The sound of the thump and crunch as the arrow penetrated his scapula was truly impressive. Very kinetic how it all happened. He ran about 25 yards and collapsed.

I shot 5 more pigs that night from a stand over a feeder. They just come in to eat, you shoot one, he squeals and runs. The others run away for a few seconds and then return to eat. Ran out of arrows that evening or I could've taken more of them.

So you can see that the arrow penetrates well. But this wasn't a large pig.

 

[amp713]

I dont think i would go all the way to 20% but i like my arrow flight... Ive "heard" that pigs are really pretty tough animals and if you are getting good penetration there you should be pretty good as far as elk goes. Guys have killed them for years with nothing but a handy down arrow they have been shooting for years.... But a lot of it does come down to the amount of time and tinkering you want to do.. If you can start with a small FOC then build up and record all the info you can for each set up then step back and look at what you liked the most or didnt.... A heavier arrow really seems to open up your pin gap also....