Fit enough....? Where do you say "I'm happy"?

[*zap*]

Sure, total caloric intake matters but what type of foods make up that total matters more than what the total is....

 

[Clifford]

Sure, total caloric intake matters but what type of foods make up that total matters more than what the total is....

The basic math of calories in vs calories out are what determine weight gain vs loss. I would agree the composition of those calories does play a big role in body composition though. Typically someone at 300lbs can shed weight pretty fast without losing a ton of strength (been there).

 

[Clifford]

Involves eating fewer calories, yes. But I respectively disagree with the "just" part of the sentence. Used to believe that, but I no longer think it's that simple (to simply eat less). That doesn't account for the hormonal problem (i.e. insulin being elevated, thus in fat storage mode on a high carbohydrate diet).

I used to carry another 40 lbs of fat on me. Like the OP, I exercised like crazy, tried to calorie restrict. It sort of worked, in the short term, but weight fluctuated, and it's miserable being hungry. Exercise is great, but it's a losing battle to try and outrun your fork.

At 44, I'm leaner and stronger than ever, and it's not the exercise that got me lean, or this strong without injury. It was radically changing my diet. Basically went from trying to follow all the conventional wisdom nutrition advice (high carb, moderate protein, low fat), to going ever lower and lower carb. The more I prioritized animal protein (got full eating meat), the less starches I ate, the leaner and stronger I got. And the joint pain went away, along with a host of other improvements. I finally just said the hell with it and went 99-100% carnivore 16 months ago.

Anyway, don't think that you have to go as extreme as I did, but will say the more you get off carbs, the easier weight loss might be.

I'm a very lean 160 lbs now, lift a combined total 1025#, can do 30 strict pullups. I'm never hungry anymore, and I don't have cravings. Or digestive problems. Or skin problems. It's just bizarre.

Oh, and it's way more fun exercising now since I recover faster and am lighter. It just doesn't seem like a grind.

Best of luck, and its really commendable to loose that kind of weight.

I have also had great success with cutting carbs down to drop weight and found it to be easier to still get adequate protein in. Hormonal factors and insulin resistance do play a big role but the basic math of losing weight always dictates that if you want to lose but aren’t then you need to eat less. Carbs might be the easier/smarter macro to pull the deficit calories from depending on the goal. For me it’s quite a bit easier to be compliant when I restrict carbs.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I will throw in my $0.02 but I will say fitness and health is very personal and specific. First congrats on the weight loss. Now me:

46
6’3”
Currently 250#

OP, like you, I have always been heavy. Graduated highschool at #180. Worked in a gym in college and got to #220. Last time I was under #200 was at the end of basic training. I wanted to bulk up while in the army in my early 20s and hit 240#. Back then, I ran a 4-hour marathon and mountain biked all the time so had decent cardio for carrying all that weight. Flash forward 20 years of desk jobs and dad bods and I was still lifting but not doing a lot of cardio. A year ago I topped out at #270 and was on the verge of having to buy bigger suits. Instead I got into a CrossFit gym. I like it and am lifting heavier than I have in years along with my general fitness going up and dropping about #20. Three lift total is pretty close to yours. I don’t run much anymore (paratroopers knees and hips catching up with me) but I did 40 miles in the Grand Canyon earlier this year without a problem. I can’t keep up with the skinny guys on the trail until you add a load. Carrying 50# I can outhike and outlast many of those twigs.

As I age I am becoming more focused on (1) joint health/stability and injury prevention (2) functional fitness that blends strength and cardio and (3) finding a reasonable weight.

Looking at some of the dudes who I admired as a kid - wrestlers, body builders - the only ones that are still in decent shape are the ones who moved toward mobility and total fitness. Diamond Dallas Page, Dorian Yates, even old Jake the Snake Roberts took a hard turn into yoga and functional fitness and are still doing well into their 60s. I want to be those guys, not Ronny Coleman limping around on two canes talking about my 800# squat or hulk hogan still talking about his arms while he rolls around on a rascal (not a dig on him, I am a life-long hulkamaniac).

My goal for the next couple of years is to whittle my weight down to 220# and find a balance of fitness that blends CrossFit/hiits stuff with low impact cardio and yoga/stretching. Supple leopard kind of stuff.

So I would say, keep working on the weight loss. That 300# frame will catch up to you more and more each year - joints, back, heart. Focus on less heavy lifts and more functional stuff - think pistol squats vs one rep max. Stretch and stabilize your joints. Start planning for the kind of fitness you want in your 50s and beyond and build those habits now.

 

[*zap*]

I would bet that someone who 'uses' 20,000 calories a week and eats all processed foods for a month that totals 20,000 calories will stay at or gain a little weight. The same person switches to an all natural food diet (no processed foods) of 20,000 calories for a month will drop a few pounds.

My personal experience with this is:
I dropped 25# in 9 months by gradually switching to a no processed food diet and basically the same caloric intake with no change in exercise regime. I certainly did not drop 10,000 calories per month or have any drastic increase in cardio exercise during that time frame. I ate a lot of food and a lot of natural food carbs......since then I have switched to a lower carb and higher fat (omega 3 and unsaturated fats) diet, seeing faster recoveries and more strength gains now. I always kept protein intake on the high end, maybe .8g per # of body weight.

IMO, the best thing anyone can do is drop all processed foods...including animal protein sources that are fed a lot of soy...

 

[Desk Jockey]

In order to justify a 309# Bodyweight, I’d expect a trainee to total 1200 in just their squat and deadlift alone. In my mind, you can’t justify that Bodyweight unless you are exceptionally strong. Now, if we’re talking the average hunter, sure, a 1200 lbs total is impressive, but there is no way to justify a elk hunter weighing 300#. You have to justify that Bodyweight somehow and having squat and a deadlift well north of 600# is really the only way to do it. Otherwise, weight needs to be lost as it’s just not healthy to be that large unless you are carrying a considerable amount of lean body mass which a 1200 lbs total at 300+ lbs doesn’t imply.
I’m glad the OP is strong and I’m also glad the he can hunt the way that he wants to hunt effectively at 300#, but, at the end of the day, he’s going to be healthier and likely have an improved quality of life losing 50-70# and he can probably be just as strong as he is now. A 250# 41 year old with a 1200 total and a big, strong man. A 309# 41 year old with a 1200 lbs total is a fat, strong man. That’s the difference and there’s no nice way to say it. At 300+ lbs, the concern is his long term health, not his total and not his ability to hunt.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you sound like an ass.

 

[hartigjosh]

I had back and knee surgery at a young age. I can tell you that another 10, 20, 30 lbs on any frame makes a difference. Think about it like a blister on your foot. You dont feel the friction at first but it builds and builds and then eventually that extra weight brings on a problem. Maybe its a disc slip, cartilage blown in the knee, anything... but the less extra weight you carry around the better. I am not saying go skinny but I would say @ 300 lbs it could only benefit you in the long term to go down to a smaller frame.
Screw fitness for hunting. Use a hunt as a motivator to get in to a lifestyle change, then maintain the lifestyle.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Everyone is going to feel comfortable at different fitness levels. I’m not sure how/where you hunt, but if you aren’t limited by fitness, then you’re good. I agree with what someone said earlier, I’m not looking for a magic number, just if my performance is where I want it. If I end up missing out on an opportunity because I got up the mountain 2 minutes to late or was to winded to take the shot, I need to be better. That being said, last season I was 240, in good shape, and could lift a truck. This season I was 190, in good shape, but not near as strong, but I was breezing up mountains and getting to the top barely winded. At 240, even in shape, that was not the case. Body weight makes a big difference.

 

[BeaverHunter]

Don’t take this the wrong way, but you sound like an ass.

How is he supposed to take it?

 

[Poser]

This is what I love about this place. Lots of opinions, great input, all while still being polite and positive.
I'll agree, Poser may be blunt and honest, but he's right I'm fat still. Less fat than before, and still have work to do if I choose.
I appreciate how so many can share of what they feel their version of "fit" is and what it relates too, and how they are working to get there.
I love the input and ideas for future application. To be honest, I live in a town that has little to no resources for someone wanting to better themselves physically and nutritionally. I did research and applied what I learned, now I had to take a honest look and admit I'm at the end of my knowledge stream. I'll most likely have to travel to Bend or Eugene to get some solid science based advice if I want to move forward on those last 40 or 50lbs.
I would love if this thread kept going, I think it would be good for people starting the journey to see ALL the ideas of what "fit to hunt" is to different people and to discuss that.

The first name that comes to mind for a potential nutrition coach specific to you is Robert Santana of Weights & Plates down in AZ. He does offer online coaching. He’s a registered dietitian, certified Starting Strength coach and has worked with a number of strength athletes including “big guy” powerlifters. There’s probably only a handful of coaches who would be applicable to your specific situation so, if nothing else, this would be a good place to start. You might also reach out to “Coach Chris” on here and see if he has any recommendations.

ONLINE COACHING

NUTRITION & STRENGTH COACHING ... ONLINE At Weights & Plates we aim to help those who truly need it. We believe that the most effective way to do this is through mastery of effective nutrition and strength training principles. To provide such a comprehensive service, we have a

weightsandplates.com

 

[mtwarden]

First congratulations on your weight loss and am sure with a little more perseverance (and sweat!) you can shed a few more pounds.

I'm perfectly happy where I am fitness wise, but have worked very hard to get there. I strength train twice a week and am in the mountains the other five days most weeks (I'm fortunate in that mountains are just a stone's throw away).

I've never had a weight problem (knock on wood), but owe that more to genetics than anything (although racking up 30-40 miles a week doesn't hurt either ) I do eat a relatively healthy diet, but nothing extraordinary so- I like a good greasy cheeseburger and pizza too much to eliminate things I enjoy (include IPA's in that mix )

would I like to be faster? sure; would I like to be stronger? sure again, but I'm perfectly fine where I'm at- knowing that it's going to take a lot of effort on my part to maintain where I'm at

Just keep your nose to the grindstone- our fitness and health is a blessing we don't want to take for granted.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

If you take your foot off the gas, your may end up over 400 before you know it. I’m sure some people can throttle back and maintain, but I’m not one of them. If I’m not trying to be my best, I’ll be at my worst in no time.


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[Dragonfish]

Skinny-
you mentioned lack of resources in your area, thought I'd pass this along- go to barbellmedicine.com. i'm not a sales person, not affiliated in any way. I became aware of them through a good friend of mine that's a physician. I've been following their guidelines on nutrition since about last September. went from 268 with a 45 inch belly, to 228 and 37 inches. They have a number of workout templates you can use, i've been rotating through them- basically 8 to 10 week programs, each has it's own focus. The variety helps to keep me fresh, and recording the reps, sets, etc keeps me motivated as I've found that very often i'm setting a new personal record in some aspect of training. maybe not a one rep max, maybe it's a new PR on squats for a set of 8, or 2 count pause bench for a set of 6, or whatever. But it keeps me going. Good luck!

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Being honest with yourself is important. If you’re blaming a bad diet on lack of resources, you’re not being honest with yourself.


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[SkinnyPete]

Being honest with yourself is important. If you’re blaming a bad diet on lack of resources, you’re not being honest with yourself.


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I'm not saying I have a bad diet because of a lack of resources. I had a bad diet because literally no one in my life knew how to eat properly. I was a fat kid that grew up to be a fat adult. I seriously had zero knowledge of healthy eating and everyone locally wanted to sell me some new fad diet and supplement line instead of discussing a long term lifestyle change. So I read, paleo, keto, organic, liquid, bodybuilder, powerlifter diet books, I read IIFYM, and learned how to track macros. But now I'm plateaued and I don't know where to go.
What I AM saying that I have a lack of knowledgeable persons locally to discuss my future/long term dietary goals.
I was strict keto for 18mos (when I lost much of my weight). I realized that I was replacing one bad dietary lifestyle (overeating) with Keto. While Keto worked for me, it became a psychological problem because I became super fixated on "staying keto". I mean i was weighing everything i ate, and panicking if i went out of ketosis... It worked for teaching me macros, and portioning, but as a lifelong lifestyle I don't see it being doable or mentally healthy.
So, I honestly need someone to help me learn how to find a long term/life long plan that is functional and that I can actually live a normal life with.
I find it amusing when people say "you're just not being honest with yourself." Or "just eat less calories", I do agree that you can't outwork your fork, I DO believe there is more to things than "just eat less". Now, figuring out that combination, that's the next step.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

I'm not saying I have a bad diet because of a lack of resources. I had a bad diet because literally no one in my life knew how to eat properly. I was a fat kid that grew up to be a fat adult. I seriously had zero knowledge of healthy eating and everyone locally wanted to sell me some new fad diet and supplement line instead of discussing a long term lifestyle change. So I read, paleo, keto, organic, liquid, bodybuilder, powerlifter diet books, I read IIFYM, and learned how to track macros. But now I'm plateaued and I don't know where to go.
What I AM saying that I have a lack of knowledgeable persons locally to discuss my future/long term dietary goals.
I was strict keto for 18mos (when I lost much of my weight). I realized that I was replacing one bad dietary lifestyle (overeating) with Keto. While Keto worked for me, it became a psychological problem because I became super fixated on "staying keto". I mean i was weighing everything i ate, and panicking if i went out of ketosis... It worked for teaching me macros, and portioning, but as a lifelong lifestyle I don't see it being doable or mentally healthy.
So, I honestly need someone to help me learn how to find a long term/life long plan that is functional and that I can actually live a normal life with.
I find it amusing when people say "you're just not being honest with yourself." Or "just eat less calories", I do agree that you can't outwork your fork, I DO believe there is more to things than "just eat less". Now, figuring out that combination, that's the next step.

I agree that it’s hard to stay hard core anything long term. Obsessing over keto is for beginners or people who are in to that kind of thing. I obsess over things in phases. It’s hard for me to keep motivated for more than a few months, so I always change goals. I have been low carb for 5-6 years now though. It’s completely sustainable long term. I just go through phases of which type of low carb and how strict I am. Calorie restriction diets on the other hand, are hard to sustain long term. It’s not natural to go through life hungry. Most experts you seek advice from are going to recommend a calorie restriction diet. All they see is the diet working for people, when their clients give up and get fat again, they don’t see them anymore, so they have a skewed vision of things. Good luck, and keep up the good fight. If you stop moving forward, you’re most likely moving backward. The unfortunate truth is that every morning we have a decision to make whether we’re going to try to get a little better today, or die a little today.


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[fatlander]

Have you tried intermittent fasting OP? It sucks for a few days but once you break through a week it’s amazing. I can’t tell you the last time I counted a calorie. I was 240 at 5’10”. I dropped to 175 in 7.5 months. Granted I was 22 and training like a savage, but it’s possible. If I could lose 65 pounds at my size you definitely can drop 50.

Now a days I don’t always intermittent fast but I feel awful if I go two plus days eating 3 square meals. After a big weekend like thanksgiving I always fast for at least 24 hours and sometimes even 48. I feel like a million bucks after that. Being full is actually a terrible feeling. You’re sluggish physically and mentally when you’re full. Intermittent fasting really taught me to just be satisfied and over time I’ve been able to perform with less caloric intake.

Try not eating until 2pm everyday and cutting yourself by 8pm. Eat whatever you feel like you need in that window. If you don’t lose a noticeable amount of weight in two weeks I’d bet a lot of money you cheated.

PM me if you want some real specifics on what has worked for me and quite a few other people I turned on to it.


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[LostArra]

Have you tried intermittent fasting OP? It sucks for a few days but once you break through a week it’s amazing. I can’t tell you the last time I counted a calorie. I was 240 at 5’10”. I dropped to 175 in 7.5 months. Granted I was 22 and training like a savage, but it’s possible. If I could lose 65 pounds at my size you definitely can drop 50.

Now a days I don’t always intermittent fast but I feel awful if I go two plus days eating 3 square meals. After a big weekend like thanksgiving I always fast for at least 24 hours and sometimes even 48. I feel like a million bucks after that. Being full is actually a terrible feeling. You’re sluggish physically and mentally when you’re full. Intermittent fasting really taught me to just be satisfied and over time I’ve been able to perform with less caloric intake.

Try not eating until 2pm everyday and cutting yourself by 8pm. Eat whatever you feel like you need in that window. If you don’t lose a noticeable amount of weight in two weeks I’d bet a lot of money you cheated.

PM me if you want some real specifics on what has worked for me and quite a few other people I turned on to it.


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Are you an ex-wrestler?
I wrestled grade school thru 4 years of college and find that wrestlers or ex-wrestlers in general are a small population who is not panicked or incapacitated by missing a meal(s) like most Americans with their attraction to dietary gimmicks.

 

[jorgensen.travis]

Are you an ex-wrestler?
I wrestled grade school thru 4 years of college and find that wrestlers or ex-wrestlers in general are a small population who is not panicked or incapacitated by missing a meal(s) like most Americans with their attraction to dietary gimmicks.

This is the reason I encourage my wrestlers to make weight at least once a year. Teaches mental discipline and control. I still do it once a year as well. During the season, so I never forget what I’m asking of them.


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[fatlander]

Are you an ex-wrestler?
I wrestled grade school thru 4 years of college and find that wrestlers or ex-wrestlers in general are a small population who is not panicked or incapacitated by missing a meal(s) like most Americans with their attraction to dietary gimmicks.

No, I’ve never wrestled. I do agree with you that Americans want an easy fix and will pay for any fad they think will help. Intermittent fasting isn’t for everyone but it’s not hard at all. It takes zero skill, only requires discipline. If you hold yourself accountable, you will lose weight.

On an aside I did live with some body builders and wrestlers in college. Watching them eat or drink whatever they wanted during their window but still cut weight is what sparked me to try it.


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