First Wolf Kill of Livestock in Colorado

[Trap]

Elk hunting success rates are very low in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. Those with the time, talent, and money need to get the job done on these over objective elk populations.

The over objective elk populations you claim are decimated by wolves.

Lol the elk are over whose objective? Certain private landowners and you know it. Idaho doesn’t really have any units over objective except places like 45 where there’s ton of private and NO wolves. Just because you are allowed to do something doesn’t mean you should

 

[BuzzH]

Lol the elk are over whose objective? Certain private landowners and you know it. Idaho doesn’t really have any units over objective except places like 45 where there’s ton of private and NO wolves. Just because you are allowed to do something doesn’t mean you should

The objectives adopted by the wildlife management professionals you say should make all the decisions.

Just because you are allowed to kill multiple wolves a year doesn't mean you should.

 

[Marble]

Up until the mid 90s, the majority of commissions were made up of people considered to be members of the "hook and bullet" culture. They were geared more towards game, sports and increasing animal numbers. When the global warming culture really started gaining traction, a lot of the commissions shifted to more politely driven groups. At the time of the change I wasn't involved with any conservation groups, but as I became involved and interacted with our legal council, he described the shift over the decades. It's not all bad, but definitely not good either.

Although ballot box game management isnt new entirely, it has become very popular. The first I recall was Prop 90 in CA banning all hunting of mountain lions in CA. And the trend continues. It's not a good way to manage game like this.



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[Marble]

The objectives adopted by the wildlife management professionals you say should make all the decisions.

Just because you are allowed to kill multiple wolves a year doesn't mean you should.

Yes people should. Especially where the wolf population is way over what the stated objective was.

The people proposing all these grizzly and wolf reintroductions will predictably fight against any hunting of them, even as the population limits they agree to or suggest are exceeded. Why is this? Just like I said earlier, they oppose hunting. And if given the choice, they would ban all of it.

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[MtnW]

Say good bye to one of the largest moose herds in Colorado.

 

[Indian Summer]

Yes people should. Especially where the wolf population is way over what the stated objective was.

The people proposing all these grizzly and wolf reintroductions will predictably fight against any hunting of them, even as the population limits they agree to or suggest are exceeded. Why is this? Just like I said earlier, they oppose hunting. And if given the choice, they would ban all of it.

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You’re on a roll Marble. Your last 2 post summed it up in a very short and sweet way. But as you said they oppose hunting and they have an answer for everything. I’m about to move on and read the comments after yours.

The couple earlier ones are case and point. Who gives a sh1t about a couple dead cows and oh you guys always have to bring up those 19 elk that the wolves killed and never ate a bite of. Those things are apparently irrelevant in this conversation having nothing to do with what wolves are capable of or why we need to keep them in check like we do with every other animal big or small.

 

[BuzzH]

Yes people should. Especially where the wolf population is way over what the stated objective was.

The people proposing all these grizzly and wolf reintroductions will predictably fight against any hunting of them, even as the population limits they agree to or suggest are exceeded. Why is this? Just like I said earlier, they oppose hunting. And if given the choice, they would ban all of it.

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Then it should be perfectly fine to shoot multiple elk in areas that are over objective as well.

 

[Indian Summer]

Then it should be perfectly fine to shoot multiple elk in areas that are over objective as well.

It is! Those units will have either additional antlerless elk tags for a second animal or longer/late seasons or both. Also the regular hunting license may be valid for either sex elk instead of bulls only which always increases the number of elk killed.

But speaking from experience and those of other hunters and ranchers it’s not easy to shoot a wolf let alone enough to outnumber the reproduction rate. There are lots of unpunched wolf tags. Unlike elk where a longer season and more cow tags will mean an instant herd reduction. In fact… there have been places where wolf hunting and trapping was legal but didn’t work and eventually the problem got bad enough that they had to go in with helicopters and remove packs.

Probably the two best things we can do, or could have done was to start hunting and trapping them before they were 10 to 20 times over the agreed number and quit dumping more of them off in other states.

I’d also like to point out the the whole idea that wolves were an endangered species that needed protected under the ESA to begin with was 100% bullsh1t. Not only have they always been thriving all across Canada, the Yukon and Alaska but we already had self sustaining packs in the lower 48. It was an anti hunting movement from day 1.

 

[Trap]

It is! Those units will have either additional antlerless elk tags for a second animal or longer/late seasons or both.

But speaking from experience and those of other hunters and ranchers it’s not easy to shoot a wolf let alone enough to outnumber the reproduction rate. There are lots of unpunched wolf tags. Unlike elk where a longer season and more cow tags will mean an instant herd reduction. In fact… there have been places where wolf hunting and trapping was legal but didn’t work and eventually the problem got bad enough that they had to go in with helicopters and remove packs.

Probably the two best things we can do, or could have done was to start hunting and trapping them before they were 10 to 20 times over the agreed number and quit dumping more of them off in other states.

I’d also like to point out the the whole idea that wolves were an endangered species that needed protected under the ESA to begin with was 100% bullsh1t. Not only have they always been thriving all across Canada, the Yukon and Alaska but we already has self sustaining packs in the lower 48. It was an anti hunting movement from day 1.

No one on the pro wolf side ever talks about reproduction rates. Cow elk normally has 1 calf per year. One wolf has 5-10 pups as a wide estimate

 

[BuzzH]

It is! Those units will have either additional antlerless elk tags for a second animal or longer/late seasons or both.

But speaking from experience and those of other hunters and ranchers it’s not easy to shoot a wolf let alone enough to outnumber the reproduction rate. There are lots of unpunched wolf tags. Unlike elk where a longer season and more cow tags will mean an instant herd reduction. In fact… there have been places where wolf hunting and trapping was legal but didn’t work and eventually the problem got bad enough that they had to go in with helicopters and remove packs.

Probably the two best things we can do, or could have done was to start hunting and trapping them before they were 10 to 20 times over the agreed number and quit dumping more of them off in other states.

I’d also like to point out the the whole idea that wolves were an endangered species that needed protected under the ESA to begin with was 100% bullsh1t. Not only have they always been thriving all across Canada, the Yukon and Alaska but we already had self sustaining packs in the lower 48. It was an anti hunting movement from day 1.

How do explain 11 week general elk hunting AND shoulder seasons in Montana for areas with below objective elk numbers?

Is it ok because the professional wildlife managers say so?

 

[Trap]

The objectives adopted by the wildlife management professionals you say should make all the decisions.

Just because you are allowed to kill multiple wolves a year doesn't mean you should.

Ok I think totally the opposite. With wolves being much harder to kill than cow elk( which if you’re honest can be easy depending on the circumstances) . I think everyone should kill as many wolves as possible. I choose not to harvest more elk than my family and a few friends we share with can use. You aren’t doing anything that’s not legal or necessarily wrong so carry on with taking 5 or 6? Elk per year. We just have a different approach to me it feels a little selfish and pointless. I will always try and harvest 1 or 2 per year because we eat that and I would rather shoot a bull given the choice. One cow will maybe produce 1 calve that might survive the first year. One female wolf will produce a litter of wolves just like any other dogs. What would happen to the population if you put 200 domestic dogs together and let them breed freely? Let’s say I take 10 wolves out of a pack of 12. I just reduced that population by 83%. The Wolfers heads would explode. The remaining 2 if male and female could breed and have a litter of 10 and they are back to 100%. What if I get zero that year and the next. The population will explode. Reproductive rates alone should DEMAND way more aggressive management of wolves over elk. It’s kinda basic math. Do you hunt predators?

 

[Trap]

How do explain 11 week general elk hunting AND shoulder seasons in Montana for areas with below objective elk numbers?

Is it ok because the professional wildlife managers say so?

Didn’t you just tell me that it’s ok ? You said they needed guys like you to harvest all those excess elk? And that it was the wildlife professionals job so you kill multiple elk in multiple states? I’m confused

 

[Trap]

Elk hunting success rates are very low in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. Those with the time, talent, and money need to get the job done on these over objective elk populations.

The over objective elk populations you claim are decimated by wolves.

Do you agree with shoulder seasons and extra primarily cow tags or not? You obviously participate in using as many extra (I assume cow) tags as you can in multiple states

 

[BuzzH]

Didn’t you just tell me that it’s ok ? You said they needed guys like you to harvest all those excess elk? And that it was the wildlife professionals job so you kill multiple elk in multiple states? I’m confused

In areas with elk below objective numbers? Where did I say that?

Do you trust the professionals in Montana that are still allowing general otc 11 week seasons on below objective elk populations?

That's curious.

 

[BuzzH]

Do you agree with shoulder seasons and extra primarily cow tags or not? You obviously participate in using as many extra (I assume cow) tags as you can in multiple states

According to you it doesn't matter what I think, or anyone else for that matter. It's up to the handful of professional wildlife managers to decide for us.

 

[RMM]

According to you it doesn't matter what I think, or anyone else for that matter. It's up to the handful of professional wildlife managers to decide for us.

I agree with you that the extended/shoulder seasons in areas with below objective elk numbers make no sense. But what is the answer then? We leave it up to public vote to decide on seasons and bag limits? That would go to shit in a hurry

 

[Trap]

Then it should be perfectly fine to shoot multiple elk in areas that are over objective as

According to you it doesn't matter what I think, or anyone else for that matter. It's up to the handful of professional wildlife managers to decide for us.

put that opinion to the side. What is your stance regardless of WHO made the decision do you agree with an 11 month season And a shoulder season and multiple tags all over Montana or not? You just asked Indian summer if he was in favor and it sounded like you were opposed? Like the wildlife professionals were making poor decisions?

 

[Trap]

I agree with you that the extended/shoulder seasons in areas with below objective elk numbers make no sense. But what is the answer then? We leave it up to public vote to decide on seasons and bag limits? That would go to shit in a hurry

I am not aware of any below objective units with shoulder seasons? Can someone provide evidence of one ?

 

[RMM]

I am not aware of any below objective units with shoulder seasons? Can someone provide evidence of one ?

My comment was based solely on Buzz's comment on post #250

 

[Trap]

In areas with elk below objective numbers? Where did I say that?

Do you trust the professionals in Montana that are still allowing general otc 11 week seasons on below objective elk populations?

That's curious.

I don’t get it I wanted to know if you agree with a bunch of extra cow tags and a shoulder season What does The General season have to do with that question? there aren’t any below objective units that have extra tags or a shoulder season that I am aware of. Please provide an example of A below objective unit with extra tags or a shoulder season