First Western Rifle

[180ls1]

Of the choices, id go 6.5 PRC. Probably in a Tikka or Xbolt. No need to hit the $2k cap.

I've never really called elk on a rifle tag but I have done a bunch of tracking elk in thick cover with a rifle. A fixed 10x would be way down the list on preference for me as well.

Agreed.

 

[treydfoster]

I'm looking at the same thing, but the cartridges I am looking at are 6.5 PRC, 7 PRC, and 280ai. Less recoil and all will take anything out to 500 no problem. I really like the 280ai, but the selection of rifles has taken a back seat to 7mm PRC. I think 6.5 PRC would do everything I need, but I don't think you can beat 7mm PRC on a possible marginal shot at distance.

You are about to open Pandora's box.

 

[treydfoster]

Its actually not. Thats why the vast majority of rifles in production right now are still being chambered in 6.5 creedmoor.

You could say this about alot of cartridges that don't have the hype they once did. Not saying you're wrong.

 

[MtnW]

I’m aware of the hunts. To say that shooting bull elk bugling with a rifle during the rut is “common” and normal, is misleading at best. Very few situations or hunts are for rutting bull elk with a rifle and to use that as some driver of rifle or scope selection for the OP is inane.

Really? Obviously you have very limited experiences, you have never been on a prime bull elk hunt with a rifle in Colorado, Wyoming , Utah , New Mexico , Montana or British Columbia. These are normal annual hunts for my friends and I who hunt in the Rocky Mtn states. Much like Alaskan’s who do their annual moose rut hunts. Pretty common and normal. How is that you are “the scoped rifle expert and giving advice to everyone if you have “ NEVER” experienced a bull elk rut hunt with a rifle in any of these states or Provence’s ? We hunt and call in bulls just like bow hunters.
Your earlier statement about hunting rutting bulls in September with a rifle is also lacking substance and experience. We hunt and kill rutted up bulls in Colorado and New Mexico all the time in October with rifles too! You have never hunted rutted up bulls in October? Just because you do not have these experiences doesn’t mean many of us here do not do these hunts on a regular basis and they are common and normal for us! Again much like our friends in Alaska who do yearly rut hunts with a rifle for bull moose , very common and normal for them. A 10X fixed power scope on an all around elk rifle really limits your ability if you hunt elk in all conditions they offer. Some others also hunt bull elk in the dark timber, surely your recommendation of a fixed 10X scope would be a terrible choice there too ! Or again does hunting up close and personal in the black timber that many here enjoy not fit your ideals of common and normal too? These guys many who hunt the Pacific NW sometimes shoot their bulls in their beds at paces rather than yards. It is common and normal for many of us to hunt elk in various seasons , locations and conditions . Just because you have not had these experiences hunting , does not make these hunts uncommon or abnormal for others. Many here make several elk hunts a year all over the Rocky Mtn West and are not limited to one generic type of season or hunt . Per your comment above, Nothing I have stated is misleading, I am just representing facts from those who have actually had these experiences. Many here have a lifetime of experiences under many variables hunting all over . I just get tired of being called out by self proclaimed internet experts who only have limited knowledge and experiences .
MtnW

 

[Mountainrancher]

Really? Obviously you have very limited experiences, you have never been on a prime bull elk hunt with a rifle in Colorado, Wyoming , Utah , New Mexico , Montana or British Columbia. These are normal annual hunts for my friends and I who hunt in the Rocky Mtn states. Much like Alaskan’s who do their annual moose rut hunts. Pretty common and normal. How is that you are “the scoped rifle expert and giving advice to everyone if you have “ NEVER” experienced a bull elk rut hunt with a rifle in any of these states or Provence’s ? We hunt and call in bulls just like bow hunters.
Your earlier statement about hunting rutting bulls in September with a rifle is also lacking substance and experience. We hunt and kill rutted up bulls in Colorado and New Mexico all the time in October with rifles too! You have never hunted rutted up bulls in October? Just because you do not have these experiences doesn’t mean many of us here do not do these hunts on a regular basis and they are common and normal for us! Again much like our friends in Alaska who do yearly rut hunts with a rifle for bull moose , very common and normal for them. A 10X fixed power scope on an all around elk rifle really limits your ability if you hunt elk in all conditions they offer. Some others also hunt bull elk in the dark timber, surely your recommendation of a fixed 10X scope would be a terrible choice there too ! Or again does hunting up close and personal in the black timber that many here enjoy not fit your ideals of common and normal too? These guys many who hunt the Pacific NW sometimes shoot their bulls in their beds at paces rather than yards. It is common and normal for many of us to hunt elk in various seasons , locations and conditions . Just because you have not had these experiences hunting , does not make these hunts uncommon or abnormal for others. Many here make several elk hunts a year all over the Rocky Mtn West and are not limited to one generic type of season or hunt . Per your comment above, Nothing I have stated is misleading, I am just representing facts from those who have actually had these experiences. Many here have a lifetime of experiences under many variables hunting all over . I just get tired of being called out by self proclaimed internet experts who only have limited knowledge and experiences .
MtnW

What hunts are you referring to in Colorado? As far as I’m aware there are no rifle bull elk hunts in September. Unless you mean ranching for wildlife which is a whole different ballgame.

 

[Strider]

Really? Obviously you have very limited experiences, you have never been on a prime bull elk hunt with a rifle in Colorado, Wyoming , Utah , New Mexico , Montana or British Columbia. These are normal annual hunts for my friends and I who hunt in the Rocky Mtn states. Much like Alaskan’s who do their annual moose rut hunts. Pretty common and normal. How is that you are “the scoped rifle expert and giving advice to everyone if you have “ NEVER” experienced a bull elk rut hunt with a rifle in any of these states or Provence’s ? We hunt and call in bulls just like bow hunters.
Your earlier statement about hunting rutting bulls in September with a rifle is also lacking substance and experience. We hunt and kill rutted up bulls in Colorado and New Mexico all the time in October with rifles too! You have never hunted rutted up bulls in October? Just because you do not have these experiences doesn’t mean many of us here do not do these hunts on a regular basis and they are common and normal for us! Again much like our friends in Alaska who do yearly rut hunts with a rifle for bull moose , very common and normal for them. A 10X fixed power scope on an all around elk rifle really limits your ability if you hunt elk in all conditions they offer. Some others also hunt bull elk in the dark timber, surely your recommendation of a fixed 10X scope would be a terrible choice there too ! Or again does hunting up close and personal in the black timber that many here enjoy not fit your ideals of common and normal too? These guys many who hunt the Pacific NW sometimes shoot their bulls in their beds at paces rather than yards. It is common and normal for many of us to hunt elk in various seasons , locations and conditions . Just because you have not had these experiences hunting , does not make these hunts uncommon or abnormal for others. Many here make several elk hunts a year all over the Rocky Mtn West and are not limited to one generic type of season or hunt . Per your comment above, Nothing I have stated is misleading, I am just representing facts from those who have actually had these experiences. Many here have a lifetime of experiences under many variables hunting all over . I just get tired of being called out by self proclaimed internet experts who only have limited knowledge and experiences .
MtnW

I don't think form said anything in this thread about a 10x scope being even a good option for hunting rutting bulls with a rifle.

To say that rifle rut hunts are common and normal is a strange statement to me. For me and everyone one I'm around it's definitely the exception in a fall of hunting to be plugging rutting bull elk with a rifle in September. I guess I/we choose time in the mountains hunting multi species over chasing after easy hunts in other states.

On topic of the thread. Buy a tikka, Sauer, or xbolt. Get the lightest recoiling cartridge you feel comfortable with. The lighter the better. Preferably a stainless gun. Threaded from the factory is a plus. Get good rings and a reliable scope. Set it up yourself using threadlocker. Learn to shoot off trecking poles and pack. Part of your budget should be for 400ish rnds of ammo for practice. The more practice the better but life happens and hunting can't always take priority. I've found that 400ish rnds of practice in a year is doable and teaches you way more than the standard few boxes a year. Just be objective, realistic and disciplined in the moment about your abilities of field shooting.

 

[atmat]

Really? Obviously you have very limited experiences, you have never been on a prime bull elk hunt with a rifle in Colorado, Wyoming , Utah , New Mexico , Montana or British Columbia. These are normal annual hunts for my friends and I who hunt in the Rocky Mtn states. Much like Alaskan’s who do their annual moose rut hunts. Pretty common and normal. How is that you are “the scoped rifle expert and giving advice to everyone if you have “ NEVER” experienced a bull elk rut hunt with a rifle in any of these states or Provence’s ? We hunt and call in bulls just like bow hunters.
Your earlier statement about hunting rutting bulls in September with a rifle is also lacking substance and experience. We hunt and kill rutted up bulls in Colorado and New Mexico all the time in October with rifles too! You have never hunted rutted up bulls in October? Just because you do not have these experiences doesn’t mean many of us here do not do these hunts on a regular basis and they are common and normal for us! Again much like our friends in Alaska who do yearly rut hunts with a rifle for bull moose , very common and normal for them. A 10X fixed power scope on an all around elk rifle really limits your ability if you hunt elk in all conditions they offer. Some others also hunt bull elk in the dark timber, surely your recommendation of a fixed 10X scope would be a terrible choice there too ! Or again does hunting up close and personal in the black timber that many here enjoy not fit your ideals of common and normal too? These guys many who hunt the Pacific NW sometimes shoot their bulls in their beds at paces rather than yards. It is common and normal for many of us to hunt elk in various seasons , locations and conditions . Just because you have not had these experiences hunting , does not make these hunts uncommon or abnormal for others. Many here make several elk hunts a year all over the Rocky Mtn West and are not limited to one generic type of season or hunt . Per your comment above, Nothing I have stated is misleading, I am just representing facts from those who have actually had these experiences. Many here have a lifetime of experiences under many variables hunting all over . I just get tired of being called out by self proclaimed internet experts who only have limited knowledge and experiences .
MtnW

CO resident here. Can you point me to these common September rifle hunts? Cause I’d love to participate.

 

[mtnbound]

Most states have special draw or permit hunts that allow rifles during the rut, but it's not very common to draw them every year. If you have found a way to hunt bulls in the rut with a rifle in five states and one province, that is impressive. I have killed bugling bulls in September with a bow but never with a rifle.

 

[Matt5266]

Ya, here in idaho if you want to rifle hunt in september your drawing a pretty limited controlled hunt tag.

Granted it is still possible to do in october as they can still be vocal but not even close to September.

On a side note elk bugling in Idaho period now has changed drastically over the years due to wolves mostly I believe but over hunting units doesnt help either.......*looking at you F&G*

 

[ElPollo]

Really? Obviously you have very limited experiences, you have never been on a prime bull elk hunt with a rifle in Colorado, Wyoming , Utah , New Mexico , Montana or British Columbia. These are normal annual hunts for my friends and I who hunt in the Rocky Mtn states. Much like Alaskan’s who do their annual moose rut hunts. Pretty common and normal. How is that you are “the scoped rifle expert and giving advice to everyone if you have “ NEVER” experienced a bull elk rut hunt with a rifle in any of these states or Provence’s ? We hunt and call in bulls just like bow hunters.
Your earlier statement about hunting rutting bulls in September with a rifle is also lacking substance and experience. We hunt and kill rutted up bulls in Colorado and New Mexico all the time in October with rifles too! You have never hunted rutted up bulls in October? Just because you do not have these experiences doesn’t mean many of us here do not do these hunts on a regular basis and they are common and normal for us! Again much like our friends in Alaska who do yearly rut hunts with a rifle for bull moose , very common and normal for them. A 10X fixed power scope on an all around elk rifle really limits your ability if you hunt elk in all conditions they offer. Some others also hunt bull elk in the dark timber, surely your recommendation of a fixed 10X scope would be a terrible choice there too ! Or again does hunting up close and personal in the black timber that many here enjoy not fit your ideals of common and normal too? These guys many who hunt the Pacific NW sometimes shoot their bulls in their beds at paces rather than yards. It is common and normal for many of us to hunt elk in various seasons , locations and conditions . Just because you have not had these experiences hunting , does not make these hunts uncommon or abnormal for others. Many here make several elk hunts a year all over the Rocky Mtn West and are not limited to one generic type of season or hunt . Per your comment above, Nothing I have stated is misleading, I am just representing facts from those who have actually had these experiences. Many here have a lifetime of experiences under many variables hunting all over . I just get tired of being called out by self proclaimed internet experts who only have limited knowledge and experiences .
MtnW

 

[HandgunHTR]

Yep, I would like to be filled in on these elk rut rifle hunts as well.

Specific details please.

 

[backyardbandit]

The best "do it all" western rifle should be able to do just that. No need to reinvent the wheel trying to shoot .223 bullets in hard to read mountain conditions into animals with massive shoulder blades and a strong will to survive compared to the MO whitetails we're used to.

A wide range of 6.5mm, 7mm, and 30 cal cartridges would fit the bill just fine. If you're a normal sized guy shooting with a brake or suppressor, recoil shouldn't be much of an issue unless you go really magnum and are shooting more than your self imposed 500 yard limit.

Not sure if you've hunted out west before, but you're MUCH more likely to encounter 500+ yard shot opportunities than back home. If you've practiced, are confident, and the opportunity presents itself, having a gun that can confidently "do it all" out past 500 yards would be a good choice.

It's not a question of IF a cartridge can do the job, it's a question of which is the BEST for the job. You owe it to the animal not to be shooting a lower bc .233 bullet at it.

And the fact a fixed 10x scope is even in the conversation is laughable unless you're paying the big bucks for a private canned hunt that they set you out in a field. The great majority of elk I've shot with a rifle have been less than 100 yards. Colorado public land OTC rifle season bulls don't play in meadows. Get something like a 3-15.

 

[wind gypsy]

@MtnW Didn't specify sept only. Bugling elk doesn't seem to be unheard of in the first half of Oct. I thought @sndmn11 lost his damn mind when he mentioned calling as an option thanksgiving week a few years back but damned if I didn't hear elk softly bugling once i put in electronic ear pro and proceeded to walk right in on elk because of it.

 

[Mountainrancher]

@MtnW Didn't specify sept only. Bugling elk doesn't seem to be unheard of in the first half of Oct. I thought @sndmn11 lost his damn mind when he mentioned calling as an option thanksgiving week a few years back but damned if I didn't hear elk softly bugling once i put in electronic ear pro and proceeded to walk right in on elk because of it.

His wording implied that he was talking about September that’s why I asked for clarification. First season in Colorado can see some pretty heavy rut activity especially when it was earlier than now. I’ve heard bugles into 3rd season but they don’t respond to calling well or come into calls much that late. It mostly seems like talking amongst themselves than hard locating rut talk.

 

[atmat]

Not sure if you've hunted out west before, but you're MUCH more likely to encounter 500+ yard shot opportunities

The great majority of elk I've shot with a rifle have been less than 100 yards.

Lol. So which is it, mostly >500 or mostly <100?

into animals with massive shoulder blades

Lol elk shoulders aren’t thick at all. They’ve been killed forever with pointy sticks. We’ve got guys here killing elk with 223 at >800 yards.

 

[texag10]

CO resident here. Can you point me to these common September rifle hunts? Cause I’d love to participate.

"Common" must mean the early rifle hunts that are all 20+ point draws.

EDIT: those are all in October this year.

 

[backyardbandit]

Lol. So which is it, mostly >500 or mostly <100?



Lol elk shoulders aren’t thick at all. They’ve been killed forever with pointy sticks. We’ve got guys here killing elk with 223 at >800 yards.

Lol nice try, but go ahead and fully quote my sentence. "Not sure if you've hunted out west before, but you're MUCH more likely to encounter 500+ yard shot opportunities than back home."
That was referring to his initial statement about not thinking he would ever shoot farther than 500 yards.
But to answer your question, I've killed more under 100 yards than over, but I've killed out to 600 yards.

If elk shoulders aren't thick, why aren't archery hunters shooting 400 shafts with 100 grain rage broadheads? Don't be ridiculous and say a heavy .223 bullet at a front quartering bull elk is going to penetrate as well as as a western hunting load that's got 400+% more energy at 500 yards.

I never said you couldn't kill an elk at 800 yards with a .223 with 200ft-lbs of energy, I'm saying for a single "do it all" western rifle, there's better options that have less bullet drop, less wind drift, multiples more energy, better bullet options, and don't have punishing recoil.

Do you disagree?

 

[atmat]

Do you disagree?

Yes, clearly.

I live out west and hunt with a 223 where legal and a 243 where caliber restrictions exist.

Energy is an irrelevant metric for killing. I’d suggest you read the 223 and 6mm big game threads here.

 

[backyardbandit]

Yes, clearly.

I live out west and hunt with a 223 where legal and a 243 where caliber restrictions exist.

Energy is an irrelevant metric for killing. I’d suggest you read the 223 and 6mm big game threads here.

Ok thanks for answering. I've read through some of the threads you've mentioned, and don't disagree that they can get the job done when the variables all come together for your not so average Joe western shooting enthusiast.
We can agree to disagree about what is the "best" 1 western gun option.

I know I wouldn't go hiking in grizzly country with my ruger single six .22, maybe you're more adventurous than me.

 

[TaperPin]

What my point is if you hunt enough and have enough experiences, you are going to find the animals you hunt in multiple scenarios. Many elk killed at 15 yards doesn’t mean you are hunting in timber. You may have called that bull in from a half mile away. Your shot could be anywhere from 500 yards to 10 yards. At 10 yards I do not want to be using a 10X fixed power scope

All the talk and focus about the 10x scope completely takes away from the original intent of the post for a single general purpose rifle, which is more often than not, pretty open country. Use whatever variable you want. The majority of elk areas in Wyoming are pretty open country.

I’ve bugled elk during early wilderness rifle seasons in Wyoming with a fixed 6x, that’s not a 10 yard elk scope, but it doesn’t have to be - it doesn’t take a lot of thought to know you have to constantly think about shooting lanes far enough away for the 6x to be effective - no different from hunting coyotes with a fixed 12x. Even 18 year old me was pretty good with a fixed 12x.

As we speak I’m looking at wine barrels 15 yards across our yard at 12x, and would have no problem seeing nothing but 20” of hair and quickly finding an aiming point behind the shoulder. Have them trotting by if you want with a cow in front of and trailing him and I’d take the shot, it will feel like surprising a coyote and only seeing the middle of the body without head or tail - been there.

In the parts of Wyoming that have early hunts we also have grizzly bears and it’s simply smart to be further away from cover that can potentially hide a big animal with teeth in case he just got his ass kicked by a larger bear and doesn’t care if he fights you or eats an elk. I don’t want anything coming out at 10 yards.

The last early wilderness hunt, I was well above the elk looking down the entire time by design and wouldn’t have been hindered by a 24x fixed scope, let alone 10x, or the 6x on the rifle. Rather than bugle from where I’m limited to short range I rarely put myself in that kind of cover with a rifle in hand because it doesn’t take advantage of the huge advantage a long range gun gives you.

The average Joe wouldn’t starve if someone forced them to use a fixed scope of any power elk hunting - you simply adjust to what you have.

Use your variable scope and move on.