First Western Rifle

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

JJelkNewbie
Don’t know if I would be giving advice on a elk hunting rifle scope if I had only killed ONE elk. Even your name is “ elkNewbie”. Just sayin.
MtnW

Well, you may well be right on that... I'm just a humble native Iowan, and elk are pretty scarce in these parts. But a scope is a scope, and they either hold zero, track, and point, or they don't. After 40 years of hunting I've killed my share of rabbits, squirrels, coyotes, whitetails, possums, raccoons, ground hogs, badgers, beavers, and even bull frogs with rifles and the aforementioned aiming devices from 5 feet to 400 yards.

However, if you gotta have more than ONE elk under your belt, killed with a .30 or 7mm mag, to understand how scopes work (and to be a certified old school bad ass) then hey @MtnW you got me beat!

 

[TaperPin]

JJelkNewbie
Don’t know if I would be giving advice on a elk hunting rifle scope if I had only killed ONE elk. Even your name is “ elkNewbie”. Just sayin.
MtnW

Is this a discussion of timber rifles? That’s great if you still hunt timber - it’s great if people understand it can be a short range proposition, but don’t try to suggest every western hunter is snail crawling in the timber every year, because they just aren’t. For those that do, it’s quite obvious a low power scope is appropriate. Just saying’.

 

[MtnW]

Is this a discussion of timber rifles? That’s great if you still hunt timber - it’s great if people understand it can be a short range proposition, but don’t try to suggest every western hunter is snail crawling in the timber every year, because they just aren’t. For those that do, it’s quite obvious a low power scope is appropriate. Just saying’.

What my point is if you hunt enough and have enough experiences, you are going to find the animals you hunt in multiple scenarios. Many elk killed at 15 yards doesn’t mean you are hunting in timber. You may have called that bull in from a half mile away. Your shot could be anywhere from 500 yards to 10 yards. At 10 yards I do not want to be using a 10X fixed power scope.

 

[MatukaJoe]

Well I'm sure this isn't the first "help a noob pick his caliber" thread, but here goes.

I've started looking at setting up a "do it all" western rifle. Elk, Muleys, antelope etc.
I can't picture myself ever shooting further than 500 yards.
I'd like to stay under $2000 on the base rifle.

Edit after some feedback:
6.5 PRC, 7 REM MAG, & 300 WSM are the main 3 I'm looking at so far.

The best caliber is likely the one you already have. Esp 500 yards and in. Be experience rich not kit rich. Hell put the money down as a downpayment on a drop hunt or buy premium glass. If you must have a new rifle bc you want one then I concur with the other statements on 6.5 CM or better yet 6mm CM. I have owned 300WM, 7RM, 28 Nos, 7mm08, 308, 6.5 PRC. If I could back in time I'd tell myself to get a 6mm CM and be done.

 

[wesfromky]

I feel this is one of the best TL;DR on why to go with a 6cm (and smaller/similar, like .223/.243/6.5cm), his build is pretty high end, but you can get pretty close with a lot less cash.

 

[Okie_Poke]

I feel this is one of the best TL;DR on why to go with a 6cm (and smaller/similar, like .223/.243/6.5cm), his build is pretty high end, but you can get pretty close with a lot less cash.

The podcasts Form did with those guys as part of the same project are pretty interesting, too, but they aren't short. Will definitely make a person think.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

im curious as to why you want to go with such a large round and even into the magnums when your range isnt that massive? guys on here are dumping elk at that distance or farther with 6mm bullets.

Tons of people hating on the creeds in there but they are easy on the pocketbook and do everything you would need within your allotted range as well as passed it. you can shoot all day long without having issues with getting a flinch and 2 boxes of 6.5cm are just over the cost of a box of PRC. You will be able to get out and practice much more often which is more valuable than any extra energy you will gain from a bigger bullet. a poor shot is a poor shot regardless of how big of magnum you are shooting. Good shot placement will always prevail over power.

I encourage you to go look at Erik Cortina's 500yd cold bore challenge videos and see how much these guys miss at 500 with their super slick comp guns and all their experience.

Its just my two cents but there are some people on here really convinced you need a cannon to kill animals but back in the day people were killing these big ol elk and moose with a hand throw spear with a rock point.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

The podcasts Form did with those guys as part of the same project are pretty interesting, too, but they aren't short. Will definitely make a person think.

made me rethink my whole safe really. almost bought a 300 and now i feel very happy i didnt waste my money and kept my 6.5cm as my main rig. i have all the confidence in that rifle to do what it needs to when the time comes.

 

[Formidilosus]

The last thing I want is a bugling bull elk running in on me at less than 10-15 yards with a fixed 10x scope.

You may have called that bull in from a half mile away. Your shot could be anywhere from 500 yards to 10 yards. At 10 yards I do not want to be using a 10X fixed power scope.

You kill lots of “bugling” bull elk with rifles?

 

[MtnW]

You kill lots of “bugling” bull elk with rifles?

Formidilosus,
Yes I have. How about you?

 

[Formidilosus]

Formidilosus,
Yes I have. How about you?

Nope. Can’t say I’ve killed a bugling bull elk with a rifle after calling it in, in September.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Nope. Can’t say I’ve killed a bugling bull elk with a rifle after calling it in, in September.

In NW Montana there are early bugle rifle hunts in September. The bull I killed in the Bob was on 9/22, and the outfitter lured him in bugling from a 32oz Gatorade bottle he cut the bottom out of after leaving his tube in camp. I actually shot him right as he cracked off a bugle.

 

[2five7]

Maybe I missed it, but has the op said if he already has any rifles? Most of the time a guy has an 06, or a 270, that just need a good optic and a good load to be a "western" rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

In NW Montana there are early bugle rifle hunts in September. The bull I killed in the Bob was on 9/22, and the outfitter lured him in bugling from a 32oz Gatorade bottle he cut the bottom out of after leaving his tube in camp. I actually shot him right as he cracked off a bugle.

I’m aware. It’s just interesting to use that relatively rare, and specific scenario as if it is common.

 

[MtnW]

I’m aware. It’s just interesting to use that relatively rare, and specific scenario as if it is common.

Formidilosus
Not rare at all if you are serious about hunting bull elk during the rut with a rifle. I am sure I am not the only one on here that has a lot of experiences hunting bull elk during the rut with a rifle.
Colorado,Montana, Utah, British Columbia, New Mexico and Wyoming , ALL have prime bull elk rifle hunts available.
Cow calling, bugling , very common to get a bull within bow range during these rifle rut hunts . Again, NOT as you say “a relatively rare and specific scenario as if it’s common “. Sure would not want to be using your recommended fixed 10 power scope at bow range on these hunts, in fact your recommended 10X fixed power scope would be one of the worst choices possible!
MtnW

 

[Brucebarker024]

If I were doing it all over again this is what I would do-

Tikka t3x lite 6.5 prc or 6.5 creed
Vertical grip
To84
Swfa fixed 10 mils
If you don’t reload buy a case of ammo. If you do reload buy 8 pounds of powder, 100 pieces of brass, and 1000 140 eldm

If you don’t already have a suppressor and you can own one in your state buy one. Chop the barrel to 20 inches and thread it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Formidilosus
Not rare at all if you are serious about hunting bull elk during the rut with a rifle. I am sure I am not the only one on here that has a lot of experiences hunting bull elk during the rut with a rifle.
Colorado,Montana, Utah, British Columbia, New Mexico and Wyoming , ALL have prime bull elk rifle hunts available.

I’m aware of the hunts. To say that shooting bull elk bugling with a rifle during the rut is “common” and normal, is misleading at best. Very few situations or hunts are for rutting bull elk with a rifle and to use that as some driver of rifle or scope selection for the OP is inane.

Sure would not want to be using your recommended fixed 10 power scope at bow range on these hunts, in fact your recommended 10X fixed power scope would be one of the worst choices possible!
MtnW

“My recommended”? Can you quote where I have recommended anything in this thread?

 

[MtnW]

I've killed a pile of deer and one elk with riflescopes. I don't recall any of them being at lowest or highest magnification, rather somewhere in the middle.

I recommended the SWFA because it is affordable, reliable, and available. I have a 6x and a 3-15 and both are great for my needs, but unavailable right now. A SWFA 10x is a worthy compromise, especially if the OP doesn't have a lot of time before his hunt.

@Formidilosus does all of the Rokslide scope reviews, and knows more about most things Western hunting, shooting, and optics related than me and the vast majority of dudes on the site. If he says the 10x, while not ideal, will work in most hunting situations, than I'd say go for it. If the OP has the time and funds to get a variable Maven or NF, even better.

Formidilosus:
I don’t know you or your writings,experience,etc.. But you get quoted here as above comments and other websites on rifle scopes . I use a 10X on one of my 22-250’ s for varmint hunting, never on a elk rifle. He ElkNewbie has your quotes “ “ above.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Formidilosus:
I don’t know you or your writings,experience,etc.. But you get quoted here as above comments and other websites on rifle scopes . I use a 10X on one of my 22-250’ s for varmint hunting, never on a elk rifle. He ElkNewbie has your quotes “ “ above.

I did not quote Form directly. I've participated in conversations with he and other members that have used the 10x with great success and would recommend them. Please re-read my statement citing Form, "If he (Form) says the 10x, while not ideal, will work in most hunting situations, than I'd say go for it. If the OP has the time and funds to get a variable Maven or NF, even better." Form has not provided any specific recommendations on this thread.

Again, I recommended the SWFA 10x because it is affordable, reliable, an available. It's also gotten several positive reviews from other members that have one mounted and hunt with it regularly. I never said it was the ideal choice for hunting dark timber during the rut. However, it is totally adequate/appropriate for a majority of scenarios for big game hunting- elk, mule deer, whitetail, antelope, etc...

 

[wind gypsy]

Of the choices, id go 6.5 PRC. Probably in a Tikka or Xbolt. No need to hit the $2k cap. Honorable mention for seekins.

I've never really called elk on a rifle tag but I have done a bunch of tracking elk in thick cover with a rifle. A fixed 10x would be way down the list on preference for me as well.