First Lite follows suit .....

[backcountry_hunter]

Bummer.
If prices go down I would be shocked. Kuiu's prices never went down like they promised. But FL isn't Kuiu either, so I guess time will tell.

this isn't totally true. Kuiu dropped prices on a few of their items when they were expanding and placing larger orders. Somewhere in 2012 or 2013 maybe. I know because I had placed an order for attacks at the time and a few months later they dropped them. The owner had a big write up on his blog at the time also. It wasn't much (maybe 20$ per pair) but it was still something....

 

[jm1607]

Why would kuiu’s Prices go down, they where direct from the get go? They didn’t go to a cheaper facility they went and pre bought more production capacity from a larger top tier factory. They did discount some of thier high volume products As promised.

I was referring to Kuiu's switch to China when they promised lower prices and fewer stocking problems. They discounted a couple things but it took them years to do so.. Nothing happened for quite a while after their re-structure

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Kuiu was always direct to consumer. They lowered prices when they bought larger volumes of certain items as they expanded, but that’s totally different than what we’re taking about here with First Lite. My expectation would be the retail markup portion of each item be knocked down/out with FL going that direction.

But......Patagonia did this long before kuiu, etc. Simms did the same thing. They sell direct, and through shops, so MSRP is the same either way.

Bottom line is if a company is converting entirely to direct to consumer, I expect the retail part of their pricing to disappear. If it doesn’t, well......


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[Dobermann]

And the selling-off of stock until it's gone has begun: First Lite Hunting Clothing | Argali

 

[OR Archer]

And the selling-off of stock until it's gone has begun: First Lite Hunting Clothing | Argali

Haha we started doing that as soon as we found out. Sad part is this thread is how we came across the information! No email or phone call.

I don’t blame them for going this route. I know it’s probably best for them so they can still compete at a competitive price. Hopefully this move will allow them to iron out their current sizing and stock issues and put more time and resources into creating new products.

 

[THBZN]

I was surprised to hear of this from a buyer of a prominent Western retailer. With the news, they immediately put FL at 50% off to draw down all in-store inventory as fast as possible. It was a very surprising bit of news for retailers I work with, to say the least.

Recently, Ibex Outdoor Clothing (merino wool) mentioned pulling out of retail and going direct in recent months, then word gets around that they are now going out of business. GoLite tried it as well years ago, and folded. It isn't a death sentence for a brand per se, but an interesting choice to have retailers for a decade help build the brand, then pull the plug on them, and hope that the remaining channel of direct to consumer will make up for it via improved margins, etc. It is now their only channel.

From my seat, it just doesn't seem like the best long-term strategy. Successful brands reach consumers in a variety of ways and have so for years, including selling online, having their own physical stores and via a solid base of retailers. Now their only option is online -- no more trying on products for size, seeing the new products first hand, getting advice from store employees, etc.

Retailers offer brands two specific benefits that Direct does not: exposure to a wide range of customers and the "real" hands on experience of the brand. Products on the shelf for a certain amount of time allow for repeat interactions with the products, which is key for attracting consumers who were not specifically searching for the brand or product in question.

I hope this is a the right move for FL, but disappointed to see them abandon retail partners so quickly. I would be curious to know how they are going to take care of retailers who committed to large preseason orders with January 2018 ship dates...

 

[dotman]

I was surprised to hear of this from a buyer of a prominent Western retailer. With the news, they immediately put FL at 50% off to draw down all in-store inventory as fast as possible. It was a very surprising bit of news for retailers I work with, to say the least.

Recently, Ibex Outdoor Clothing (merino wool) mentioned pulling out of retail and going direct in recent months, then word gets around that they are now going out of business. GoLite tried it as well years ago, and folded. It isn't a death sentence for a brand per se, but an interesting choice to have retailers for a decade help build the brand, then pull the plug on them, and hope that the remaining channel of direct to consumer will make up for it via improved margins, etc. It is now their only channel.

From my seat, it just doesn't seem like the best long-term strategy. Successful brands reach consumers in a variety of ways and have so for years, including selling online, having their own physical stores and via a solid base of retailers. Now their only option is online -- no more trying on products for size, seeing the new products first hand, getting advice from store employees, etc.

Retailers offer brands two specific benefits that Direct does not: exposure to a wide range of customers and the "real" hands on experience of the brand. Products on the shelf for a certain amount of time allow for repeat interactions with the products, which is key for attracting consumers who were not specifically searching for the brand or product in question.

I hope this is a the right move for FL, but disappointed to see them abandon retail partners so quickly. I would be curious to know how they are going to take care of retailers who committed to large preseason orders with January 2018 ship dates...

Golite folded because of poor management of company b&m stores. They have since come back under a new name that is only direct to consumer.

 

[gelton]

Which western retailer? Would love to buy some of their stuff for 50% off...

 

[Nomad]

Look for their market research models to include more hikers, campers, and other non hunting groups. I doubt they ever appeal to anti hunting groups, but certainly the market for special clothing, is way bigger than just the hunting community.

Agreed... I've suggested FL to a few non-hunting hiker/backpacking types who had never heard of them. FL is apparently a less expensive product with acceptable quality compared to what they were using/considering.

Also, I assume most of us here and others in "our group" live in out of the way places and/or have a low tolerance for shopping.

 

[tipsntails7]

Agreed... I've suggested FL to a few non-hunting hiker/backpacking types who had never heard of them. FL is apparently a less expensive product with acceptable quality compared to what they were using/considering.

Also, I assume most of us here and others in "our group" live in out of the way places and/or have a low tolerance for shopping.

I think this is a very very good point. I have never seen a store carry First lite in my area until this last year, and what they had was pathetic and over priced compared to other outlets. We just got a sportsman warehouse and it carries Sitka. first and only dealer I have seen carry it since i moved here 10 years ago. The looks I have seen guys give those prices is hilarious.

If they keep places like Blackovis and 1Shot as online dealers then I see this move as an actual benefit. The staff in most brick and mortar stores either have not used this product, or worse cannot even speak intelligently about it enough to translate to people why they should buy it instead of the 40 dollar under armour shirt that is on the rack right next to them. I include cabelas, bass pro and the like in that, who I bet are the largest volume purchasers of FL. so it sits and sits and never moves. then disappears never to be seen again.

Like it or not FL is a niche product. The market for guys paying 100+ bucks for a single shirt is pretty small but growing. It is even smaller when you have retailers who have no idea how to sell the product.

FL will live and die off guys like the ones who frequent this site. Not many can be found trolling around town with shopping bags in hand, they can be found in a dark corner of their gear room scouring the internet for new "reviews".

 

[Dameon]

I think this is a very very good point. I have never seen a store carry First lite in my area until this last year, and what they had was pathetic and over priced compared to other outlets. We just got a sportsman warehouse and it carries Sitka. first and only dealer I have seen carry it since i moved here 10 years ago. The looks I have seen guys give those prices is hilarious.

If they keep places like Blackovis and 1Shot as online dealers then I see this move as an actual benefit. The staff in most brick and mortar stores either have not used this product, or worse cannot even speak intelligently about it enough to translate to people why they should buy it instead of the 40 dollar under armour shirt that is on the rack right next to them. I include cabelas, bass pro and the like in that, who I bet are the largest volume purchasers of FL. so it sits and sits and never moves. then disappears never to be seen again.

Like it or not FL is a niche product. The market for guys paying 100+ bucks for a single shirt is pretty small but growing. It is even smaller when you have retailers who have no idea how to sell the product.

FL will live and die off guys like the ones who frequent this site. Not many can be found trolling around town with shopping bags in hand, they can be found in a dark corner of their gear room scouring the internet for new "reviews".

Nailed it. I’m a ASAT First Lite guy, and it is all I have and use. Several years ago, I got word that Cabelas was carrying it. I drove out to try it and they had one rack of baselayers and that was it. They had a full section of Kryptek, Sitka, and Under Armour. No one there could tell me anything about First Lite or even help me order my size as the mediums they had were way too big. I left disappointed. I bought my First Lite gear online soon after and I’ve been doing it ever since. Now that First Lite is dropping ASAT, I stocked up. I just wish I could find and afford at least one more Kanab 2.0 and Corrugate pant. I guess they don’t want more of my money, but it won’t stop me from recommending them.


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[unclericco]

I bought my first set of FL this season for a late NV elk hunt. It was pretty severe conditions with heavy wind and cold temps and I was very happy with the way their gear performed. I have all the high dollar clothing from the other manufacturers and I gotta admit this stuff is really second to none IMO. Glad I ordered my Sawtooth top yesterday on sale now I hope good deals will still be available!

 

[sneaky]

Wouldn’t say one retailer is much diff then what FL is moving to.

I see Kryptek in a bunch of different stores. It isn't one retailer.

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[sneaky]

Good points,

Not to mention First Lite is holding the bag if one of the stores go bankrupt.


IMO the prices will defiantly go down.

If the store that goes bust has already purchased the FL gear, it doesn't affect them one bit. Once they've got their money, it's all on the retailer.

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[sneaky]

Consumers have forced this move. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen someone walk into a store and find something, only to look it up on their phone and find it online for cheaper, then order it from there. It’s to be expected.


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Those same people are called... yeah, not worth printing...

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[sneaky]

Kinda like I've been looking for H4350 for nearly a year online, at local gun shops, local large outdoor retailers, and a local small reloading shops. I did make stops specifically to see if they had any.

Just found out Midsouth had 8 lb jugs in stock so I bought my 2 jugs limit.

Man, you must have missed the thread I had on this months ago. My local retailer had a shelf full of 4350 in 1lb and 8lb jugs.

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[sneaky]

I was surprised to hear of this from a buyer of a prominent Western retailer. With the news, they immediately put FL at 50% off to draw down all in-store inventory as fast as possible. It was a very surprising bit of news for retailers I work with, to say the least.

Recently, Ibex Outdoor Clothing (merino wool) mentioned pulling out of retail and going direct in recent months, then word gets around that they are now going out of business. GoLite tried it as well years ago, and folded. It isn't a death sentence for a brand per se, but an interesting choice to have retailers for a decade help build the brand, then pull the plug on them, and hope that the remaining channel of direct to consumer will make up for it via improved margins, etc. It is now their only channel.

From my seat, it just doesn't seem like the best long-term strategy. Successful brands reach consumers in a variety of ways and have so for years, including selling online, having their own physical stores and via a solid base of retailers. Now their only option is online -- no more trying on products for size, seeing the new products first hand, getting advice from store employees, etc.

Retailers offer brands two specific benefits that Direct does not: exposure to a wide range of customers and the "real" hands on experience of the brand. Products on the shelf for a certain amount of time allow for repeat interactions with the products, which is key for attracting consumers who were not specifically searching for the brand or product in question.

I hope this is a the right move for FL, but disappointed to see them abandon retail partners so quickly. I would be curious to know how they are going to take care of retailers who committed to large preseason orders with January 2018 ship dates...

Well, with the way their production schedule is, they don't have to worry much about Jan 18 ship dates. I used to be a retailer for them and they told me up front that any Kanabs I needed I should order all at once, as the factory they used to sew them only did one run for the year on them. 90% of their clothes aren't available until mid summer to retailers, so if they are going DTC, it seems like they've been planning this behind the scenes for a while. They're obviously going to have to have stock on hand for the first 6 months of the year, otherwise it's doomed from the beginning.

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[Ryan Avery]

If the store that goes bust has already purchased the FL gear, it doesn't affect them one bit. Once they've got their money, it's all on the retailer.

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Most big retailers don’t pay up front! It’s always net something!!


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[IdahoElk]

Those same people are called... yeah, not worth printing...

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I don't understand, is shopping online bad to you? I'd love to shop locally but refuse to pay 15%-30% more + sales tax for something I can go online and get way cheaper with free shipping. Isn't this the reason First Lite is doing this, cut out the middleman?

 

[sneaky]

Most big retailers don’t pay up front! It’s always net something!!


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A lot, but not all. I always paid for my stuff up front, that way I didn't have to juggle all of the fall dating stuff. It sucked paying all of that out at once though

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