Federal New Cartridge

[wyosam]

It seems like a ton of people are completely missing the main claimed advantage of this cartridge which is:

doing in an 18" barrel, what 7PRC needs 24" to do.

Probably because especially on this forum, there is question whether what a 24” 7PRC can do is worth doing at all. More of a 16-18” 223/6cm crowd.


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[cuerro viejo]

It seems like a ton of people are completely missing the main claimed advantage of this cartridge which is:

doing in an 18" barrel, what 7PRC needs 24" to do.

How many people actually max out the 24” 7PRC range?

Have you done a load work up for a 7 BC?

 

[bnewt3]

How many people actually max out the 24” 7PRC range?

Have you done a load work up for a 7 BC?

The answer to your question is almost none, the answer in a hunting situation should be 0.

Can I assume that you are trying to make the point that because almost nobody maxes a 7PRC, something that that is capable beyond that distance(or at reduced distance because the 7PRC is shorter than 24") is irrelevant? Because if that is your point, then rifle cartridge development in the US should have stopped in 1906.

But aside from that, again, the main goal of this cartridge, as I see it, is to have a 7mm that performs just like a 7PRC with a significantly shorter barrel.

I dont have 7BC so no I havent done any loads.

 

[cuerro viejo]

The answer to your question is almost none, the answer in a hunting situation should be 0.

Can I assume that you are trying to make the point that because almost nobody maxes a 7PRC, something that that is capable beyond that distance is irrelevant? Because if that is your point, then rifle cartridge development in the US should have stopped in 1906.

But aside from that, again, the main goal of this cartridge, as I see it, is to have a 7mm that performs just like a 7PRC with a significantly shorter barrel.

I dont have 7BC so no I havent done any loads.

More of the point that the extra velocity is irrelevant if 1) you don’t ever utilize it 2) you can’t utilize it if you can’t tune a load to the rifle.

Until reloading is a mainstream practice for the 7BC it will remain a cool concept for those not actually going to take advantage of the increase in speed, that is of course unless you where the lucky dice roller that received a chamber/barrel combo that loves factory ammo, and that ammo never differs from lot to lot….

But to each their own I’m sure people are getting use to the neck tension requirements and finding a few box’s of casings to load

 

[bnewt3]

More of the point that the extra velocity is irrelevant if 1) you don’t ever utilize it

almost nobody stretches 7RM to its limit, almost nobody stretches 7-08 to its limits......so how far back do we need to go before everything is irrelevant?

 

[Sundodger]

The answer to your question is almost none, the answer in a hunting situation should be 0.

Can I assume that you are trying to make the point that because almost nobody maxes a 7PRC, something that that is capable beyond that distance(or at reduced distance because the 7PRC is shorter than 24") is irrelevant? Because if that is your point, then rifle cartridge development in the US should have stopped in 1906.

But aside from that, again, the main goal of this cartridge, as I see it, is to have a 7mm that performs just like a 7PRC with a significantly shorter barrel.

I dont have 7BC so no I havent done any loads.

More of the point that the extra velocity is irrelevant if 1) you don’t ever utilize it 2) you can’t utilize it if you can’t tune a load to the rifle.

Until reloading is a mainstream practice for the 7BC it will remain a cool concept for those not actually going to take advantage of the increase in speed, that is of course unless you where the lucky dice roller that received a chamber/barrel combo that loves factory ammo, and that ammo never differs from lot to lot….

But to each their own I’m sure people are getting use to the neck tension requirements and finding a few box’s of casings to load

almost nobody stretches 7RM to its limit, almost nobody stretches 7-08 to its limits......so how far back do we need to go before everything is irrelevant?

Unless you are somewhere that requires non-lead ammo. That's the big advantage of the high pressure rounds with short barrels.

I have no data to support this, but if internal ballistics are anything like an internal combustion engine, you will get better combustion efficiencies with higher pressure all other things being equal. I am sure this would a minor improvement that might not be able to detectible to a regular shooter, but it's something I about.

 

[cuerro viejo]

almost nobody stretches 7RM to its limit, almost nobody stretches 7-08 to its limits......so how far back do we need to go before everything is irrelevant?

Atleast with a 708/280ai/7prc etc you can do a load work to get to an accuracy level that will allow you to reach the range that you meet min impact velocity at.

7BC is essentially beholden to factory ammo, and what ever accuracy that gives or doesn’t give you. That’s the point you are missing, speed means nothing if you cant take advantage of it.


It is getting somewhat better on components but still not there.

 

[khuber84]

It seems like a ton of people are completely missing the main claimed advantage of this cartridge which is:

doing in an 18" barrel, what 7PRC needs 24" to do.

15k extra chamber pressure will do just that.......I'm all for it, however I think 7mm is way more then necessary. Make it a 65cm sized case that will run a 156 berger at 2900 from a short barrel. Then it'll have my attention!

 

[bnewt3]

Atleast with a 708/280ai/7prc etc you can do a load work to get to an accuracy level that will allow you to reach the range that you meet min impact velocity at.

7BC is essentially beholden to factory ammo, and what ever accuracy that gives or doesn’t give you. That’s the point you are missing, speed means nothing if you cant take advantage of it.


It is getting somewhat better on components but still not there.

AFAIK nobody is being forced to buy 7BC, so the decision to get into a cartridge, knowing reloading has question marks and only 2 companies make ammo for, is all on you(you as in the people that choose to). Pretty much all of the Weatherby cartridges are in the same boat from a factory ammo standpoint.

Very similar to buying a Wrangler, they have significant offroad ability, but they also break alot. Most people dont do anything that pushes them anywhere close to their limits, yet they sell a ton every year. Its a personal choice.

 

[bnewt3]

I think it comes down to perception:

shorter 7PRC has less velocity than long 7PRC. Does it really matter, probably not. But it is giving something up that almost everyone would rather not give up, given the option. Those with shorter barrels have decided the tradeoff was worth it.

So Federal came up with a way to remove that dilemma.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of hunters dont reload.

 

[cuerro viejo]

AFAIK nobody is being forced to buy 7BC, so the decision to get into a cartridge, knowing reloading has question marks and only 2 companies make ammo for, is all on you(you as in the people that choose to).

Very similar to buying a Wrangler, they have significant offroad ability, but they also break alot. Most people dont do anything that pushes them anywhere close to their limits, yet they sell a ton every year. Its a personal choice.

You highlighted an advantage and I stated why that advantage wasn’t received well or ignored on RS, pretty simple.

it’s a roll of the dice that you will or won’t be able to take advantage of the speed increase since you essentially can’t tune the ammo to shoot well.

Even if you don’t reload, there are several micro reloaders like Cooper Creek that have load work up options so that you can take advantage of the range that most cartridges offer, but 7 BC isn’t one of those options.

It’s obviously a different mind set,

Your example is off it’s you bought a jeep to go off road, you brag about its lockers and solid axle front end but you many not be able to take advantage of even normal sized tires because the rear end might of been geared to high, and you can’t change gearing yet to get it lower, so enjoy your 7” of ground clearance, it will get you down ….most trails,

 

[bnewt3]

15k extra chamber pressure will do just that.......I'm all for it, however I think 7mm is way more then necessary. Make it a 65cm sized case that will run a 156 berger at 2900 from a short barrel. Then it'll have my attention!

I dont think 7mm is the best place to start either, possibly because im not a "7mm guy", but at the same time I cant really find a reason to start elsewhere either.

Every caliber is so crowded.

I cant really find any reason why 30, 28, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22 are a better place to start than any other.

 

[bnewt3]

You highlighted an advantage and I stated why that advantage wasn’t received well or ignored on RS, pretty simple.

Except that many of the comments I have seen have nothing to do with "tuning". One comment that sticks out is something like "only 150fps over 7PRC"

A comment like that is comparing 24" to 24" which either because of willful ignorance, or lack of understanding, pushes aside the fact that it was specifically designed to give same velocity with a significantly shorter barrel.......which is exactly what my initial comment was about.

What can also reasonably be inferred by that comment is "only 150 fps over 7PRC......7PRC is plenty enough as it is"

And by that metric, .30-06 is plenty given the ranges almost all hunters shoot - 120 years old. 6.5x55 is plenty given the ranges almost all hunters shoot - 135 years old.

So either "enough" applies to virtually everything, or it applies to nothing. Which is it?

 

[omicron1792]

You highlighted an advantage and I stated why that advantage wasn’t received well or ignored on RS, pretty simple.

I received it well.

I don’t shoot 7BC but I use NAS3 cases in 223 for an extra 150fps.

Isn’t the whole point for most reloaders to get the maximum performance from a cartridge.

Of note, stand on your arguments. Not “most of Rokslide” arguments. People are smart enough to read and make up their own minds based on merits of an argument.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I received it well.

I don’t shoot 7BC but I use NAS3 cases in 223 for an extra 150fps.

Isn’t the whole point for most reloaders to get the maximum performance from a cartridge.

Of note, stand on your arguments. Not “most of Rokslide” arguments. People are smart enough to read and make up their own minds based on merits of an argument.

Ha, I use the phantom defense nas3 in my 223 also for same reason, so I get the argument, but if they didn’t shoot well we still have a 100’s of options and an easy ability to load for it to make it shoot well. The 7 BC doesn’t yet have same ability.

Bnewts continued argument makes no sense to me until reloading peak alloy cases has same house hold ability as normal brass. You are literally flipping a coin and hoping you get a rifle ammo combo that’s accurate enough to match the accuracy of what 95% of 7prc can be MADE to do….. all for a few inches of barrel

to each their own

 

[wyosam]

Ha, I use the phantom defense nas2 in my 223 also for same reason, so I get the argument, but if they didn’t shoot well we still have a 100’s of options and an easy ability to load for it to make it shoot well. The 7 BC doesn’t yet have same ability.

Bnewts continued argument makes no sense to me until reloading peak alloy cases has same house hold ability as normal brass. You are literally flipping a coin and hoping you get a rifle ammo combo that’s accurate enough to match the accuracy of what 95% of 7prc can be MADE to do….. all for a few inches of barrel

to each their own

I think you could make brass cases for the BC easily enough, though that does mean you pretty much have a short barreled 280ai. Though it would be pretty easy to argue short barreled 280ai would work fine for the needs of 99% of people anyway.


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[cuerro viejo]

I think you could make brass cases for the BC easily enough, though that does mean you pretty much have a short barreled 280ai. Though it would be pretty easy to argue short barreled 280ai would work fine for the needs of 99% of people anyway.


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Yelp

 

[bnewt3]

Bnewts continued argument makes no sense to me until reloading peak alloy cases has same house hold ability as normal brass. You are literally flipping a coin and hoping you get a rifle ammo combo that’s accurate enough to match the accuracy of what 95% of 7prc can be MADE to do….. all for a few inches of barrel

to each their own

You are aware that the vast majority of hunters dont reload, right?

It is likely that a significantly higher percentage of members here reload than all hunters so it is easy to get a skewed perspective on things here.

I COMPLETELY understand not being interested until reloading is easy and reliable.

However, that doesnt change the fact that this cartridge(and hopefully others like it) eliminates the dilemma that more and more hunters today face when wanting a shorter rifle but know they have to give up significant velocity to do it. Many of those same hunters dont reload, although I would believe it if more of them reload than your typical "buy a rifle and a box of ammo and hunt" crowd.

The fact also remains that within the distances almost all hunters should be taking shots, at least 1 factory 7BC option will almost certainly be sufficient.

 

[bnewt3]

I think you could make brass cases for the BC easily enough, though that does mean you pretty much have a short barreled 280ai. Though it would be pretty easy to argue short barreled 280ai would work fine for the needs of 99% of people anyway.


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An argument could be made that 99% of centerfire rifle cartridges will work for 99% of hunting scenarios.