Federal New Cartridge

[HandgunHTR]

Those who said it wasn't reloadable were wrong of course. I thought the experts on here said it would take 12 passes? Looks exactly what we are used to but with one extra step where you need to bell the case mouth before seating the bullet.

Just watched the video. Flaring the case is similar to what you have to do with a straight-walled case. The other "step" that they neglected to mention was that you are going to have to crimp that flare back out, either while seating or with some sort of "factory crimp die".

That being said, this step makes it even more apparent that while it may be reloadable, I am betting people will only get 2-4 reloads out of it before necks start to split. Steel, in any alloy, is much more brittle than brass and is subject to the same work-hardening that brass is. So, you have a case that is already more brittle, you have to work it even more in order to reload it properly, and you cannot anneal it.

I guess time will tell.

 

[wind gypsy]

It is better than 280ai.... provided you need that extra distance. I'm just looking at what a 280ai will do and then this and I'm like, we'll both shoot well past my minimum expansion velocity at hunting distances i should be shooting at... so why would I want the extra recoil of the 7BC?

If a guy is going to handload and is willing to deal with the headaches of steel cases, a 6.8 Fury hybrid case formed to 7/08 AI sounds like a better mousetrap. Less recoil yet, easier to deal with brass, and plenty of performance. I'd think a guy could get 280AI'ish performance with less recoil.

 

[Unckebob]

It is better than 280ai.... provided you need that extra distance. I'm just looking at what a 280ai will do and then this and I'm like, we'll both shoot well past my minimum expansion velocity at hunting distances i should be shooting at... so why would I want the extra recoil of the 7BC?

1) They have consistently promised that the new cartridge would have less recoil (in a rifle of the same weight) than the other big 7's due to the lower powder charge.

2) The value in the cartridge they are selling is all about short barrels. They are promising 24" barrel performance in 20" barrels. As someone who only hunts suppressed, I am really interested in that aspect. I have a 280AI.

For everyone else: it is Saami approved

 

[Unckebob]

Just watched the video. Flaring the case is similar to what you have to do with a straight-walled case. The other "step" that they neglected to mention was that you are going to have to crimp that flare back out, either while seating or with some sort of "factory crimp die".

That being said, this step makes it even more apparent that while it may be reloadable, I am betting people will only get 2-4 reloads out of it before necks start to split. Steel, in any alloy, is much more brittle than brass and is subject to the same work-hardening that brass is. So, you have a case that is already more brittle, you have to work it even more in order to reload it properly, and you cannot anneal it.

I guess time will tell.

I don't think this cartridge is intended to be for high volume shooting. Once hunters have their preferred loads, I suspect it will be a box or two per year cartridge.

 

[gerry35]

If a guy is going to handload and is willing to deal with the headaches of steel cases, a 6.8 Fury hybrid case formed to 7/08 AI sounds like a better mousetrap. Less recoil yet, easier to deal with brass, and plenty of performance. I'd think a guy could get 280AI'ish performance with less recoil.

The 277 Fury is no slouch, don't think you will gain much going to a 284 bore unless you have a bunch of 7mm bullets on the bench. Maybe this new Federal round will breathe more life into the 277 Fury now.

 

[wind gypsy]

The 277 Fury is no slouch, don't think you will gain much going to a 284 bore unless you have a bunch of 7mm bullets on the bench. Maybe this new Federal round will breathe more life into the 277 Fury now.

Since i quoted a post comparing 280AI to 7 BC, my point was that you could likely still get a 7mm option with 280AI performance and less recoil by going that route. I'm not going to argue that a guy needs 7mm pills over the 277 for shots people should be taking at game but there are definitely better 7mm bullet options out there.

 

[gerry35]

Since i quoted a post comparing 280AI to 7 BC, my point was that you could likely still get a 7mm option with 280AI performance and less recoil by going that route. I'm not going to argue that a guy needs 7mm pills over the 277 for shots people should be taking at game but there are definitely better 7mm bullet options out there.

Gotcha, this new technology looks like it could be a game changer.

 

[z987k]

1) They have consistently promised that the new cartridge would have less recoil (in a rifle of the same weight) than the other big 7's due to the lower powder charge.

2) The value in the cartridge they are selling is all about short barrels. They are promising 24" barrel performance in 20" barrels. As someone who only hunts suppressed, I am really interested in that aspect. I have a 280AI.

For everyone else: it is Saami approved

It will not, it cannot shoot the same bullet faster than a 280ai and have less recoil since the powder capacities are nearly identical.
We already know the grain weights and velocities and have educated guessed on powder charges. The recoil will be more than a 280ai. It will be at or less than 7rm or prc simply because it will have less powder mass to accelerate with very similar velocities for the same grain bullet.

 

[Okie_Poke]

It will not, it cannot shoot the same bullet faster than a 280ai and have less recoil since the powder capacities are nearly identical.
We already know the grain weights and velocities and have educated guessed on powder charges. The recoil will be more than a 280ai. It will be at or less than 7rm or prc simply because it will have less powder mass to accelerate with very similar velocities for the same grain bullet.

I don't think he was claiming it would have less recoil than the 280ai---he said less than the "big 7s." I agree with you that recoil will likely be between 280ai and 7 PRC. To put some numbers on that, based on a bunch of assumptions and ShootersCalculator, in an 8 pound rifle shooting 175 grain bullets: the 280ai may have 24 ft-lbs, the 7 BC 26 ft-lbs, and a 7 PRC 30 ft-lbs of recoil energy. I'm not claiming that's gospel truth or anything, and it could be that the extra pressure pushes it closer to 7 PRC, but it seems reasonable speculation give what we know.

 

[z987k]

I don't think he was claiming it would have less recoil than the 280ai---he said less than the "big 7s." I agree with you that recoil will likely be between 280ai and 7 PRC. To put some numbers on that, based on a bunch of assumptions and ShootersCalculator, in an 8 pound rifle shooting 175 grain bullets: the 280ai may have 24 ft-lbs, the 7 BC 26 ft-lbs, and a 7 PRC 30 ft-lbs of recoil energy. I'm not claiming that's gospel truth or anything, and it could be that the extra pressure pushes it closer to 7 PRC, but it seems reasonable speculation give what we know.

He was responding to me where I was directly comparing it to 280ai due to max effective range with most hunting bullets in the 280ai and I'm wondering what on earth I'm getting by going to 7BC(aside from more recoil), when the 280ai and an appropriate bullets already shoots past where the vast vast majority of people can or do shoot.
I can make the same argument about 7prc.

 

[SwiftShot]

He was responding to me where I was directly comparing it to 280ai due to max effective range with most hunting bullets in the 280ai and I'm wondering what on earth I'm getting by going to 7BC(aside from more recoil), when the 280ai and an appropriate bullets already shoots past where the vast vast majority of people can or do shoot.
I can make the same argument about 7prc.

The only thing the 7BC brings is shorter barrels. You get better velocity with it in a shorter barrel than conventional cartridges. So everyone who wants a 18 or 20 incher so they can run a can without carrying a flag pole will love it.

 

[ndlawrence]

Not sure if this was already posted here:

 

[z987k]

The only thing the 7BC brings is shorter barrels. You get better velocity with it in a shorter barrel than conventional cartridges. So everyone who wants a 18 or 20 incher so they can run a can without carrying a flag pole will love it.

Even a 18in 280ai is going to have plenty of velocity to make a modern vld type bullet work just fine.

I just ran the numbers. 18in 280ai with a 162eldx hits 1800fps about 675y.
The 7bc hits 1800fps with the same bullet and barrel length at about 875y.

The 7BC buys you 200 yards of effective range. Which is great. But how many people need that velocity to shoot past 675yd?
The average hunter, certainly not.
I certainly do not need a 875yard effective range hunting rifle, especially when it means more recoil. That recoil is buying me something I would never use.

 

[SwiftShot]

Even a 18in 280ai is going to have plenty of velocity to make a modern vld type bullet work just fine.

I just ran the numbers. 18in 280ai with a 162eldx hits 1800fps about 675y.
The 7bc hits 1800fps with the same bullet and barrel length at about 875y.

The 7BC buys you 200 yards of effective range. Which is great. But how many people need that velocity to shoot past 675yd?
The average hunter, certainly not.
I certainly do not need a 875yard effective range hunting rifle, especially when it means more recoil. That recoil is buying me something I would never use.

It is not about max range. Sorry I want more hit at 600 than the 280 in an 18 incher. You might be fine with low velocity which gives mediocre bullet performance.

 

[z987k]

It is not about max range. Sorry I want more hit at 600 than the 280 in an 18 incher. You might be fine with low velocity which gives mediocre bullet performance.

Energy is irrelevant. Just that the bullet properly upsets. 1800 might not be enough especially if you're shooting copper. But for something like an eldx it is.

But "whallop" isn't a thing.

 

[omicron1792]

Energy is irrelevant. Just that the bullet properly upsets. 1800 might not be enough especially if you're shooting copper. But for something like an eldx it is.

But "whallop" isn't a thing.

Bullets upset better at higher velocity than at the minimum velocity. Right?