Fair Chase

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Nope not at all what I said. I said no more scope turrets and that’s all. Also it was just an example of something to limit ourselves. Do all WKRs have low testosterone and problems with reading or just you two keyboard warriors?

my testosterone levels are just fine, and I'm sure I read at nearly a twelth grade level. Maybe you're a bit of a snowflake that gets butt hurt easily when people disagree with you?

The season structure that CPW set, with 3 deer hunts during the rut, is what is limiting trophy quality

Agree. All states that have rifle hunts during the rut are directly reducing recruitment and limiting trophy potential. This is why people flock to IA for trophy whitetails. There hasn't been a firearms season during the rut for at least 30 years. While you do have juvenile bucks that breed does, you also maximize the opportunity for mature bucks to pass on their genetics before getting killed. You also reduce the number of mature bucks that are killed when they're rutting and most vulnerable.

more than an atv could ever affect it.

Another poster already said it, and I agree. Motorized vehicles give people opportunities to get into areas they couldn't access naturally if they had to hike their way in. This lowers the "cost" of entry into back country hunting for deer, elk, etc... It makes it easier for folks to access traditional "security cover" for animals and increases opportunity for harvest. At the same time it pushes animals into less favorable areas where they're easier to find and kill.

Also if you outlaw turrets on scopes and mandate a 3-9 power scope, no more 500 yard shots.

As others have said, all scopes have turrets for elevation and windage. Some are capped and require removal and a coin to adjust. Others can be dialed externally. One of the most recommended scopes on Rokslide is the SWFA fixed 6x power, and folks that are practiced routinely kill animals beyond 500 yards with them.

- CPW cannot effectively enforce scope turrets types and magnification levels.
- Limiting to 3-9x would have limited impact on shots beyond 500 yards.
- CPW can't enforce shot distance.

If you can't enforce these items, then you're left with one option, and that is to outlaw all scopes that provide magnification entirely. This would effectively reduce the range that most guys are comfortable shooting.

If you're going to do this during rifle seasons, then wouldn't it be hypocritical not to do the same during archery season? Reduce the range of archery equipment by eliminiating electronic range finding sights and sights with more than 3 pins?

To be clear, I'm not advocating for either of these changes. This is primarily a CPW management issue. If you want to increase herds and trophy potential, reduce tags issued when animals are the most vulernable- during the rut and on the winter range

 

[omicron1792]

I’ve got a shoebox full of beards. My experience goes leaps and bonds further than google. The point is, habitat isn’t 90% of the problem. Turkeys can and do flourish in large metropolitan areas with abysmal habitat. Why is that? We’re not killing them there.


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Killing turkeys is a bit different than improving habitat to help them flourish.

 

[fatlander]

Killing turkeys is a bit different than improving habitat to help them flourish.

Well hopefully your habitat will work will offset the 30% decline they’ve seen across their range since 2004, and will also offset the record harvest year over year.


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[KurtR]

I said non turreted

Do you understand how scopes work?

 

[whatnot]

"Technology".

If you want to make an area hike in only, that's a discussion.

But tge guys with horses and mules, won't like that discussion.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

"Technology".

If you want to make an area hike in only, that's a discussion.

But tge guys with horses and mules, won't like that discussion.

I have no problem with pack animals. I rode in 18 miles for a hunt in the Bob, and long days on horses, while they give an advantage, are no picnic. I would absolutely get behind no motorized vehicle (any motors- internal combustion or electric) areas.

 

[MallardSX2]

Let's shut the ATV trails down and go with recurves and flintlocks nationwide for about 5 years. Then we will see where things go. lol I would love that.

 

[DustyCogs]

Are big/old animals synonyms with conservation? Seems to be the premise here.

For instance has QDMA been a net win or loss for deer/deer hunting in the midwest?

Are herds healthier? Are there more or less hunters afield?

I think certainly age class has improved, I don't know the answers to the other questions, curious to hear others thoughts.

Perhaps tech makes it harder to have preferable age classes in the west, but because of the other mechanism in place the herd health isn't impacted?

 

[*zap*]

I say:
Keep it simple and enjoy your hunt.

 

[MunsterMash16]

As an avid ruffed grouse and woodcock hunter in Michigan, I have to rely on my truck in order to get myself, my hunting partner (Dad aged 60+), my dog, and all the gear that is required for him close enough to our covey and with enough water to keep us safe on 70+ degree days in early October. I am a firm believer that there is a fine line in fair chase, as we are driving on seasonal roads vs walking through high density aspen saplings for a mile - only to hunt our 10 acre cover and then make the trek back.

With these elusive game birds, I feel that they have enough of an advantage in being able to escape my sight and my dog's nose through the thickest cover, but I do see a big difference in areas that are accessed by miles of winding seasonal roads vs directly off of paved ones.

However with Elk or other big game, while it is no doubt a challenge and requires significant skill to make an ethical shot at extreme distances, I do feel that some of the thrill of the hunt is lost compared to making a stalk to get within 100yds or less of your targeted species.

 

[S.Clancy]

Are big/old animals synonyms with conservation? Seems to be the premise here.

Big and old are indicators of great habitat, which I believe is indicative of good conservation. Habitat is comprised of 4 things; food, water, space, and security. Big is mostly food while old is mostly security.

For instance has QDMA been a net win or loss for deer/deer hunting in the midwest?

QDMA, to me, is a joke. It's ranching whitetails. I don't want QDMA for mule deer. But I think some regulation of technology and seasons to provide security is reasonable.

Perhaps tech makes it harder to have preferable age classes in the west, but because of the other mechanism in place the herd health isn't impacted?

There is a lot we don't understand about mule deer. I think tech definitely plays into habitat degradation because with more tech we degrade the security aspect of all habitats that aren't wilderness essentially. I also think there is a fair chase aspect to tech. Do I believe (I live in MT) we should be able to use scopes that adjust the reticle after they communicate with a rangefinder to shoot a mule deer buck at 760 yards in mid- November....no.

"Herd Health" is generally described the ability of the population to replace itself. So, it mainly comes down to having enough bucks to breed all the does and the does being in good enough condition to have viable offspring. Basically, there hasn't been a lower limit on buck:doe ratios that has been seen in wild populations to reduce pregnancy rates below 90-95%. There may be other ways that higher or lower ratios affect population viability but there has been no definitive research to suggest so.

 

[Mojave]

To me the question really comes to availability versus quality.

What is the goal of that particular unit?

If it truly is quality then incentivize predator control in the unit, and super limit the number of bucks available to take.

If it is meant to be an available resource then stop complaining about ethics.

There are few units in New Mexico that have very different priorities and they are very close. 1 is a conga line public hunt with over 400 tags per week. Very near by is a 2 day only trophy hunt.

You can have both near by but you have to make some limitations.