Expandable head elk success

[Marble]

Under the right circumstances, I would shoot an elk with a mechanical. There are pros and cons to both and neither are perfect.

I have mechanical heads that I carry deer hunting. It's a 2 blade Rage product. One deployed when I shot it and the other that I shot a coyote with was bent. My fixed blades are much more durable, just as accurate and I never have to check them when I go to shoot one at an animal.

I'll probably use the mechanical heads for turkey this spring.

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[Indian Summer]

I see the message you’re trying to get across, but there are plenty of unrecovered elk each year from fixed blades and rifles too.

I think the main issue was addressed above, people use them as a crutch because they don’t tune their bow properly. If you bow won’t shoot fixed blades straight, fix your bow, not just slap on mechanicals and call it a day. Sure they’ll fly straight but they’ll have no energy as they fly sideways down range.

That being said, I will be shooting a Magnus Black Hornet fixed blade this year for elk.

A Black Hornet is an AWESOME broadhead as are all Magnus heads. You nailed one very noteworthy issue.. mechanicals are a quick fix for untuned bows. We’ll never eliminate unrecovered elk because of their size, the roughness of terrain where they live, and all the variables. But moving parts are just adding one more thing that can go wrong. If you can eliminate any potential for a problem why not right? Pickup trucks work great but if they didn’t have moving parts they’d last forever.

 

[KyleR1985]

One thing that doesn't get mentioned is the weaker components of mechanicals, and how they interact with the increased forces generated by heavy arrows/heavy poundage/long draw.

Yes, you will likely have more juice behind the arrow to ensure it will open, and push most or all of the way through the animal. But it will, in some cases, also be enough force to bend ferrule or blades (impede penetration), or break blades (penetration distance will become less useful if the head doesn't have blades).

I only have limited data to support the above (I shoot an 80/30.5 bow, with 510-60gr arrows). And I still keep an NAP spitfire in the quiver, behind my small diameter COC heads. It is for a follow up shot where the distance or angle or moving animal means I have a low likelihood of precision and accuracy on the boiler room. I prefer cutting diameter in that situation, to increase odds of hitting high pressure pipes.

But, shooting a 350 grain arrow out of a 65lb/28" draw will not interact with a mechanical head in the same way that a 550gr arrow out of a 70/30" draw bow will.

 

[sneaky]

SMH....trust whatever information you want. Firenock is trying to sell a product. Look at their product catalog. It's not hard to understand why they want to steer people in a certain direction.

Here are some clues for you:

What is Firenock's number 1 product seller? A: Lighted Nocks
Why does Firenock think FOC is silly? A: Lighted Nocks completely screw up FOC (Disclaimer: I agree that FOC is silly as well, but their motivation here is OBVIOUS)
Why does Firenock think micro diameter shafts are bad? A: Lighted nocks do not work well with micro diameter shafts. They tend to snap in half (I have a LOT of experience with this.

So yeah, they have an obvious bias. So what do they do? Let's try to prove some nonsense about how arrows with "thick walls recover more slowly"....yeah, ok bud!

Until you post up scientific evidence in the form of high speed video to disprove their study, you are being more biased than they supposedly are. Dorge used to work for NASA and is well versed in physics. Perhaps you should call him and ask him. He'll talk your ear off and give you data points. I never had any issues snapping any of his micro diameter lighted nocks, but then again, they're built differently than Lumenoks or Nockturnals.

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[Dos Perros]

If you're that worried lighted nocks affecting FOC, just bareshaft tune and cut off your fletchings. That should offset the lighted nock weight.

 

[Jacack]

I am same dl and lbs. e 1.5 Sevr. I’m a 27.5” draw at 65 pounds so definitely lower energy setup than most. Haven’t had one go more than 100 yards or so.



I am same dl and lbs.

I’ve killed 3 bulls with the 1.5 Sevr. I’m a 27.5” draw at 65 pounds so definitely lower energy setup than most. Haven’t had one go more than 100 yards or so.

i have the same DL and 65lbs also, shot the 1.5s last year on deer and was very impressed with the results.
was thinking about trying them for elk this year but was a little worried about penetration . what weight arrow you using them with on elk ?

 

[bsnedeker]

Until you post up scientific evidence in the form of high speed video to disprove their study, you are being more biased than they supposedly are. Dorge used to work for NASA and is well versed in physics. Perhaps you should call him and ask him. He'll talk your ear off and give you data points. I never had any issues snapping any of his micro diameter lighted nocks, but then again, they're built differently than Lumenoks or Nockturnals.

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Ok dude... careful you don't get sick from drinking the Kool-aid. These guys want to sell nocks... end of story. Go ahead and trust them. There must be some sort of magical pixie dust in micro shafts that makes them recover "more slowly" despite them having the same stiffness because "the walls are thicker". If this guy worked at nasa it was probably on the project where they crashed into Mars because they were using the imperial system.

I've never had a micro shaft lighted nock last more than a few months and I've tried them all...firenocks included. Obviously that's only my personal experience but I never had issues on higher diameter nocks.

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[Dos Perros]

435 grains total

 

[VLDAVE]

SMH....trust whatever information you want. Firenock is trying to sell a product. Look at their product catalog. It's not hard to understand why they want to steer people in a certain direction.

Here are some clues for you:

What is Firenock's number 1 product seller? A: Lighted Nocks
Why does Firenock think FOC is silly? A: Lighted Nocks completely screw up FOC (Disclaimer: I agree that FOC is silly as well, but their motivation here is OBVIOUS)
Why does Firenock think micro diameter shafts are bad? A: Lighted nocks do not work well with micro diameter shafts. They tend to snap in half (I have a LOT of experience with this.

So yeah, they have an obvious bias. So what do they do? Let's try to prove some nonsense about how arrows with "thick walls recover more slowly"....yeah, ok bud!

Why does Firenock think FOC is silly?

It's more so in the way FOC is applied, thought to be. FOC can be a negative if the shaft is not stabilized.

Why does Firenock think micro diameter shafts are bad?

Again, it's the way .166 shafts are applied. Many in my experience throw tons of tip weight on a thick heavy walled shaft which adds to a problem. With better components it can help unless the shooter can tune the bow / arrow so well , but imo that is few and far between considering that shaft. Note, Firenock manufactures .166 shafts..

Bias motivation for sale is a moot point. Using that logic no one should talk about any product. Fact is Firenock is an educational based product. Some of the sources Firenock used to developed product are some of the best in the world in their given field. Many people don't know Dorge's background. It's in miltary defense contracts, directed at ballistic missile. He has numerouse degrees including in the field of nuclear chemistry if I recall right.

In my experience, building arrows as profession full time for the last several years, being one of the ones who has done high speed video for Firenock which is public so far I found no nonsense. Actually ,the recovery of an arrow can be as little as 4-8 inches in some cases as compared to 9-15ft as orignally thought.

 

[canthitbombz]

Aaron just did a broadhead review on the Kifaru cast. I believe he had the Sevr at the top of the class for mechanicals.

 

[Holski]

I’ve used the Sevr on deer but never elk. I think they would probably be fine to kill elk but I’m stuck in my ways of only using fixed blade on elk. I use the Magnus Stingers and I have always got pass throughs. Guess it’s personal preference at then end of the day.

 

[BDRam16]

Ok dude... careful you don't get sick from drinking the Kool-aid. These guys want to sell nocks... end of story. Go ahead and trust them. There must be some sort of magical pixie dust in micro shafts that makes them recover "more slowly" despite them having the same stiffness because "the walls are thicker". If this guy worked at nasa it was probably on the project where they crashed into Mars because they were using the imperial system.

I've never had a micro shaft lighted nock last more than a few months and I've tried them all...firenocks included. Obviously that's only my personal experience but I never had issues on higher diameter nocks.

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FWIW I've had the same Lumenoks on some .204 ID arrows for 5 seasons with zero failures.

 

[Indian Summer]

Until you post up scientific evidence in the form of high speed video to disprove their study, you are being more biased than they supposedly are. Dorge used to work for NASA and is well versed in physics. Perhaps you should call him and ask him. He'll talk your ear off and give you data points. I never had any issues snapping any of his micro diameter lighted nocks, but then again, they're built differently than Lumenoks or Nockturnals.

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NASA blew up a multi million dollar mechanical projectile and killed 7 people in the process. I guess you’ll tell me they were quick clean kills!

 

[Dos Perros]

Some of you argue for the sake of arguing. Why?

 

[280Ackley]

Some of you argue for the sake of arguing. Why?

Truer words have never been spoken!!!

 

[rclouse79]

Some of you argue for the sake of arguing. Why?

Because it is the off-season and there are a bunch of bored frustrated dudes with nothing better to do.

 

[VLDAVE]

Getting to be that time of year again,, to cook picanha over the coals.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

I’ll just say this. People who post threads like this want to hear what they want to hear. It makes them feel good about a choice they have probably already made. They’ll read all of the posts that support their decision and blow right past the ones that don’t.

How many posts that don’t agree with a decision does a hunter have to read before he thinks twice about risking not recovering an elk and instead thinking about it rotting away in some hell hole?

Elk are not deer and they’re certainly not antelope. And they don’t live in nice cushy deer and antelope country either. Nuff said.

I asked for opinions on 3 heads and other mechanical success, I have killed elk only with fixed heads in the past but was interested in this new available option. I do bare shaft tune and get reasonably good fixed blade flight but there is always mountain shooting variables, fatigue, excitement uneven surfaces ect ect. I understand the limitations as well. I hunt with a single pin sight too as now my old eyes prefer it again I understand the limitations of not running a multiple pin slider but make up it with more precision shooting by cutting out pin glare/ blur . Archery is never perfect I strive to tune my equipment and body and mind to Understand and execute shots but everything is a potential flaw. It’s about restraint and prep.

 

[sneaky]

Getting to be that time of year again,, to cook picanha over the coals.
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Where's the maminha?

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[cgasner1]

Killed multiple bulls with the t3 before the dead meats was a thing. When it came out switched to it worked great killed multiple bulls with it. Had a buddy have a hard track job with one now he only shoots fixed heads. I wasn’t with him but to me the arrow looked mid mass so back a little to far. Now I shoot the raptor trick head have killed multiple bulls with it. I love that head it’s designed to slip thru the first ribs without loosing a bunch of energy. I know I’m giving up a little bit on my entrance cut but I feel the arrow is less likely to deflect or do crazy things. It’s thought enough for me I have posted pictures on here before of that broadhead sticking out of a bulls shoulder blade on the exit side. End of the day trust what’s on your arrow and hope you put it in the money the bull die in under 100 yards


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