Expandable head elk success

[svivian]

Take this with a grain of salt but I believe the 1.5" are the best designed. I have not heard(key word) good things about the 1.7" but hopefully those who have used it can chime in. I have had no issues with the 1.5" sevr so far.

 

[TSAMP]

Oregon changed its laws to allow mechanical broadheads a few years ago, and I did some of the research for us that lead to this decision. rclouse79's point was a main theme in my research.

I see many out of tune setups at our public ranges in the weeks leading up to bow season. I believe that poor shot placement is a much bigger concern than the likelihood of mechanical broadhead failure. So, if mechanicals can improve shot placement by creating less front-end drag on the arrow, that's a win in my book.

The classic study on fixed vs. mechs over time was done at the Naval Support Facility Indian Head. Yes, just deer, but we see that even back then mechs were not showing some abysmal failure rate. Obviously, you need to shoot enough KE to get the mechs to work well, especially on elk.

Dynamic arrow flight is another thing to consider and doesn't the attention it should. It seems many guys are focused on shooting micro diameter arrows with high FOC, which some of the latest Firenock podcasts claim are not optimal for high speed compound bows shooting carbon arrows. Dorge claims that micro diameter arrows are losing energy more downrange energy than a standard .246 arrow because the micros have thicker walls and take longer to "recover". As a result, these super skinny arrows are not entering the animal as straight as they could at typical bow ranges (20 -30 yards) and perhaps bending on impact more than a standard arrow. By contrast, a standard diameter arrow tends to recover by 18 yards and will enter the animal straight and stay straighter -- thus more penetration and better broadhead performance.

Splitting hairs here it seems, but I wonder if inefficient arrow flight and flex could influence so-called mechanical broadhead failures. If an arrow hits at an oblique angle, the broadhead isn't going to work as well no matter if you shoot mechs or fixed.

Interesting data. My typical whitetail shot is south of 15 yards. Could explain some of the varying performance I have seen over the years. That said, let's leave the whitetail comparisons at the door. Elk is the game here. One thing not yet mentioned that sticks out to me is the advantage of a fixed head when hunting from the ground. Multiple arrow entries and exits from a quiver, nocked arrow walking through brush are all perfect opportunities for a mechanical to deploy prematurely unnoticed. Which is by far the most common failure I've witnessed.

 

[Rob5589]

Is there any documentation that the bill passed the senate? I only see it passed the house.

 

[wapitibob]

I've killed a half dozen bulls with 1.5 spitfire mechanicals, 60# and 420 gr arrow. Better penetration and quicker kills than any fixed head in the last 40 years. Don't go over 1.5", use a 3 blade, and put it where it's supposed to go and you won't have any issues.

 

[bsnedeker]

Oregon changed its laws to allow mechanical broadheads a few years ago, and I did some of the research for us that lead to this decision. rclouse79's point was a main theme in my research.

I see many out of tune setups at our public ranges in the weeks leading up to bow season. I believe that poor shot placement is a much bigger concern than the likelihood of mechanical broadhead failure. So, if mechanicals can improve shot placement by creating less front-end drag on the arrow, that's a win in my book.

The classic study on fixed vs. mechs over time was done at the Naval Support Facility Indian Head. Yes, just deer, but we see that even back then mechs were not showing some abysmal failure rate. Obviously, you need to shoot enough KE to get the mechs to work well, especially on elk.

Dynamic arrow flight is another thing to consider and doesn't the attention it should. It seems many guys are focused on shooting micro diameter arrows with high FOC, which some of the latest Firenock podcasts claim are not optimal for high speed compound bows shooting carbon arrows. Dorge claims that micro diameter arrows are losing energy more downrange energy than a standard .246 arrow because the micros have thicker walls and take longer to "recover". As a result, these super skinny arrows are not entering the animal as straight as they could at typical bow ranges (20 -30 yards) and perhaps bending on impact more than a standard arrow. By contrast, a standard diameter arrow tends to recover by 18 yards and will enter the animal straight and stay straighter -- thus more penetration and better broadhead performance.

Splitting hairs here it seems, but I wonder if inefficient arrow flight and flex could influence so-called mechanical broadhead failures. If an arrow hits at an oblique angle, the broadhead isn't going to work as well no matter if you shoot mechs or fixed.

.... just so much wrong information here, don't even know where to start. Using the firenock podcast as a source of information is probably where you started to go wrong.

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[Backpack Hunter]

Fatal Steel Grim Reapers have worked well for me. Previous to that the Grim Reaper Razortips worked well. More often than not I have had pass thru's pulling 60-65lbs with a 29" draw, arrows ranging from 400-450 grains.

Esse quam videri

 

[mavinwa2]

No doubt fixed BH will penetrate better than Sevr for elk. Margin of error increases with any mech BH. I won't gamble a shot opportunity on bull elk with mech. Especially since my shots at elk are usually 40 yards and less.
And I usually only get 1 good shot opportunity during a hunt.

For that reason, I save my Sevr's for muleys, coues deer. Had shots in 50>70+ yards with good performance results. Friend uses 1.5 but I really like the new 2.0 over the old 2.1...increased swept back blade angle and better penetration than 2.1

Given that your bow, arrow set up is tuned correctly, if you want best penetration, sharpen whichever BH you choose. Yes, new out of package, still sharpen. I use the StaySharpGuide tool. Gets both SEVR blade and my fave Iron Will blades noticeably much sharper.
Gentlemen has great Youtube videos on how to sharpen with his device-tool and scale measured sharpness results on new blades. His testing results had new SEVR and IW blades 55% sharper than out of package!

 

[Dos Perros]

No doubt fixed BH will penetrate better than Sevr for elk.

I’ve hit 4 elk with 1” Slick Tricks or the 1” G5 Stryker, and none of them penetrated as far as any of the 3 Sevr 1.5” arrows I’ve shot at elk. 2 of those Sevrs were 55 yards and 63 yards, too. It’s not a large dataset, but I’m convinced the 1.5” Sevrs penetrate pretty well.

 

[Billy Goat]

I have 9 elk kills with spitfire mechanical heads. I play with others heads, but I trust those.


I wouldn't use a 2.0 or 2.1 sevr just from my experience with them on deer. A 1.5 I don't much see the point in, shoot a larger fixed at that point. I used mechanical 3 blades for bigger holes than I could get with fixed heads.

Tune the bow to shoot any head, mechanical get a bad name from people deciding to use them as a short cut. They couldn't get a fixed blade to fly so they put a mechanical on. It didn't fix the arrow flight problems.

 

[Indian Summer]

I’ll just say this. People who post threads like this want to hear what they want to hear. It makes them feel good about a choice they have probably already made. They’ll read all of the posts that support their decision and blow right past the ones that don’t.

How many posts that don’t agree with a decision does a hunter have to read before he thinks twice about risking not recovering an elk and instead thinking about it rotting away in some hell hole?

Elk are not deer and they’re certainly not antelope. And they don’t live in nice cushy deer and antelope country either. Nuff said.

 

[PNW bow hunter]

I've killed a half dozen bulls with 1.5 spitfire mechanicals, 60# and 420 gr arrow. Better penetration and quicker kills than any fixed head in the last 40 years. Don't go over 1.5", use a 3 blade, and put it where it's supposed to go and you won't have any issues.

Me and a couple buddies have also killed a pretty good amount of bulls with 1.5 inch 3 blade spitfires. Great swept back blade angle, very strong head(don’t think I’ve ever broke one),and shoot great. The original rocket steelheads are also a great broadhead, we have shot a lot of elk with. We also used foxes blade heads.

We all tune our bows to shoot broadheads with same point of impact as field tips out to at least 60 yards.

I have not seen a down side to the spitfires or steelheads. We have killed a LOT of different animals with these, I can’t recall a “failure” or “poor performance” with either of these two broadheads.

I have seen some very poorly designed mechanicals over the years I wouldn’t shoot deer with, let alone elk.

 

[sneaky]

Is there any documentation that the bill passed the senate? I only see it passed the house.

House Bill 507. Governor signed it into law on 3/8

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[roosiebull]

Now that we have them legal in Idaho (regardless of how we got here).I’ve been doing my research has anyone one had success with sevr 1.5 , grim reaper pro or g5 dead meat. Or I would take other recommendations of successful hunters. Just to head of the naysayers, I get the drawback’s and know there limitations. I’m shooting 70 plus pound 30 inch inline 5 total arrow weight will be over 475 to 550 depending on arrow choice. I figure I’ll have enough behind the arrow to be successful on well placed shot’s.

I agree you have plenty of energy to shoot mechs for elk. I bought some trypans a few years ago and ultimately decided I have no reason to try them and gave them to my brother, and he’s killed a bull with them each year since… I don’t like the no collar design, but there are still original trypans around (especially the 150’s) I personally would go with them or sevr

I may get a few sevr heads this year to try, I probably won’t shoot them at elk, even though I know they are plenty capable

I shot an elk last year with an over the top mech… first mechanical I have shot at an animal, it was quartered away, and my 550gr arrow literally bounced off… one blade deployed and I guess pivoted off the elk and my arrow whacked a tree sideways… not a good start for me trying mechanicals, haha… maybe a freak thing, but if I ever try another, it will be rear deploy

The evolution over the top looks pretty good, but I would still go with rear deploy myself

 

[HunterJoeMI]

Son and I have killed 6 bulls with Wasp Jak-Hammer select-a-cut version in the 1.5 inch 3 blade configuration. We shoot low brace height fast bows at 70 plus pounds with 30 inch draw lengths. Our arrows 475 grain total arrow weight.

 

[Holocene]

.... just so much wrong information here, don't even know where to start. Using the firenock podcast as a source of information is probably where you started to go wrong.

Care to elaborate on what exactly was "wrong information" and why a Firenock podcast discussing arrow manufacturing techniques seems like such a scary wrong direction to you? If talking about specific companies isn't your speed, feel free to PM me -- I'm truly interested.

I'm not preaching Firenock -- I shoot vanilla Gold Tip Pro Hunters with Blazers and QAD Exodus heads! But I did listen to the podcast this morning walking my kid in the park and thought the ideas they talked about were well-articulated and different than reading another post about FOC or mechanical vs. fixed. When's the last time you talked with a buddy about arrow recovery?

It would be easy enough to test Dorge's ideas, and it sounds like he and others are doing that with super high speed cameras. Pretty cool. Anyone ever put the Aeroweave shafts head to head with mainstream wares available from Easton, Gold Tip, Victory, etc? Truly curious here.

 

[5MilesBack]

Tune the bow to shoot any head, mechanical get a bad name from people deciding to use them as a short cut. They couldn't get a fixed blade to fly so they put a mechanical on. It didn't fix the arrow flight problems.

I've always found that my mechanical heads follow my fixed blade heads while tuning.......not my FP's. They may not be exactly with the fixed, but closer to fixed than FP's when out of tune.

 

[Billy Goat]

I've always found that my mechanical heads follow my fixed blade heads while tuning.......not my FP's. They may not be exactly with the fixed, but closer to fixed than FP's when out of tune.

Many do, but not all.


Your yard stick arrows might make it different too.

 

[5MilesBack]

If people think their mechanical heads fly just like FP's, they should shoot them on bare shafts and see if they hit with their bare shaft FP's.

 

[bsnedeker]

Care to elaborate on what exactly was "wrong information" and why a Firenock podcast discussing arrow manufacturing techniques seems like such a scary wrong direction to you? If talking about specific companies isn't your speed, feel free to PM me -- I'm truly interested.

I'm not preaching Firenock -- I shoot vanilla Gold Tip Pro Hunters with Blazers and QAD Exodus heads! But I did listen to the podcast this morning walking my kid in the park and thought the ideas they talked about were well-articulated and different than reading another post about FOC or mechanical vs. fixed. When's the last time you talked with a buddy about arrow recovery?

It would be easy enough to test Dorge's ideas, and it sounds like he and others are doing that with super high speed cameras. Pretty cool. Anyone ever put the Aeroweave shafts head to head with mainstream wares available from Easton, Gold Tip, Victory, etc? Truly curious here.

SMH....trust whatever information you want. Firenock is trying to sell a product. Look at their product catalog. It's not hard to understand why they want to steer people in a certain direction.

Here are some clues for you:

What is Firenock's number 1 product seller? A: Lighted Nocks
Why does Firenock think FOC is silly? A: Lighted Nocks completely screw up FOC (Disclaimer: I agree that FOC is silly as well, but their motivation here is OBVIOUS)
Why does Firenock think micro diameter shafts are bad? A: Lighted nocks do not work well with micro diameter shafts. They tend to snap in half (I have a LOT of experience with this.

So yeah, they have an obvious bias. So what do they do? Let's try to prove some nonsense about how arrows with "thick walls recover more slowly"....yeah, ok bud!

 

[BDRam16]

I’ll just say this. People who post threads like this want to hear what they want to hear. It makes them feel good about a choice they have probably already made. They’ll read all of the posts that support their decision and blow right past the ones that don’t.

How many posts that don’t agree with a decision does a hunter have to read before he thinks twice about risking not recovering an elk and instead thinking about it rotting away in some hell hole?

Elk are not deer and they’re certainly not antelope. And they don’t live in nice cushy deer and antelope country either. Nuff said.

I see the message you’re trying to get across, but there are plenty of unrecovered elk each year from fixed blades and rifles too.

I think the main issue was addressed above, people use them as a crutch because they don’t tune their bow properly. If you bow won’t shoot fixed blades straight, fix your bow, not just slap on mechanicals and call it a day. Sure they’ll fly straight but they’ll have no energy as they fly sideways down range.

That being said, I will be shooting a Magnus Black Hornet fixed blade this year for elk.