Expandable and Fixed Broadhead performance from a guides perspective

[the_bowhunter]

For context, I worked for an outfitter in NW Colorado in September.

We probably had a 50/50 split on hunters who used fixed versus mechanical broadheads. I wanted to write a report on performance and animal recovery rate to help out anyone who was on the fence on which head to use.

This is not a post to debate which is better to use or if the shots taken by our hunters were "ethical" or not. This is a report of what happened in some real life scenarios.

In my own opinion, if there is not an exit hole on the opposite side of the animal that you are shooting at then I would consider that not ideal penetration.

My numbers may not be exact as we had a large amount of hunters and lack of sleep may have gotten the best of my memory.


Bulls lost in the field- 7 or 8 total

Elk killed in the field- 11



Mechanical broadhead findings-

A hunter never had a full pass through with a mechanical broadhead.

I had a hunter shoot a bull at 31 yards. The mechanical failed to open and was stuck in the opposite shoulder of the bull. Perfect shot placement and the bull died 80 yards from where he was hit. The same hunter had an arrow pretty much bounce off of a bull the day before as the same broadhead hit a patch of grass and opened before it hit the elk.

Our last bull shot on Sunday was with a mechanical at 55 yards. The shot was a foot back and clipped both lungs and the liver. I do believe if the hunter had not been shooting a mechanical that the bull would have not been recovered as quickly as he was. The bull ran about 100 yards and died within seconds.

We had two frontal shots on elk with hunters using mechanical with the shots being under 10 yards. Arrow path once the arrow made contact with the elk was sporadic. One of these bulls was recovered with follow up shots needed from the hunter with his bow.

Overall, I saw very poor penetration with hunters using mechanical heads.

Shots that were farther back behind the shoulder showed to have better penetration than shots that were too far forward which led to a couple bulls being lost because the mechanical head could not penetrate the shoulder blade.


Fixed broadhead findings-

I shot a cow elk at 3 yards. My shot passed through both of her shoulders and my arrow was about 20 yards past her. I pull 75 pounds and use a single bevel.

The farthest shot on an elk was at 70 yards and the elk took a couple of steps and expired. The shot placement was just inside of the shoulder and 1/3 of the way up from the belly.

Bulls that were lost while using fixed broad-heads were because of poor shot placement. We never had a fixed blade "fail" to operate.

The farthest we tracked a bull was just over 3 miles on a shot that hit the neck. This bull was never recovered as we do not believe the shot was fatal.

We had one shot that on video showed the arrow to be in almost a perfect shot placement position for a kill but we did not recover that bull. To our best guess the bull jumped the string and turned so maybe the arrow deflected off of a rib went it hit the elk. The arrow had maybe 18 inches of penetration. This one definitely puzzled us.

Most of the elk that were killed with a fixed head died within site. 100 yards or less



These are a few of my notes from 4 weeks in the field. I would personally recommend that if you are looking for an arrow for your elk hunt that you shoot a heavy grained shaft with a large fixed blade as your broadhead. Having an arrow setup for a rainy day can help keep you from heartbreak of making a good shot but having your arrow or broadhead "malfunction".

 

[TrueAt1stLight]

Curious how much deeper the chest cavity is on an elk vs a big MN whitetail. I shoot a 70 lb Matthews Chill X (god, I hate that model name) and Rage 2 blade 100 grain broadheads. Every shot I have made on several big whitetails from “tag-you’re-it” distance to approx 40 yards were complete pass-through. I did have a quartering shot on a doe where just as I released she turned away from me and I shot her nearly through-and-through with an entry in the ham and the tip of tip of the broadhead poking out her brisket (wow, was that ever a terrible mess).

I shoot full-length arrows as I have long arms and need the length so I’m wondering if that contributes to anything. I realize that elk are significantly heavier-muscled and boned than whitetails but to not have any pass-throughs from the mechanicals seems odd. I’ve watched a few of the shots in the Rage commercials on African game and there have been pass-throughs. Are elk that tough? If so I am going to rethink my armament when I eventually get to pursue them with my bow! Thanks for the informative thread.

 

[Texizona]

Thanks for the review.

 

[TheCougar]

I’d be really interested in arrow weight and speed for these set ups. I’d think they are as big of a factor for penetration as the broadhead type. I’m sitting at 482gr and 292fps, so the arrow is going to penetrate pretty well.

 

[Wrench]

Curious how much deeper the chest cavity is on an elk vs a big MN whitetail. I shoot a 70 lb Matthews Chill X (god, I hate that model name) and Rage 2 blade 100 grain broadheads. Every shot I have made on several big whitetails from “tag-you’re-it” distance to approx 40 yards were complete pass-through. I did have a quartering shot on a doe where just as I released she turned away from me and I shot her nearly through-and-through with an entry in the ham and the tip of tip of the broadhead poking out her brisket (wow, was that ever a terrible mess).

I shoot full-length arrows as I have long arms and need the length so I’m wondering if that contributes to anything. I realize that elk are significantly heavier-muscled and boned than whitetails but to not have any pass-throughs from the mechanicals seems odd. I’ve watched a few of the shots in the Rage commercials on African game and there have been pass-throughs. Are elk that tough? If so I am going to rethink my armament when I eventually get to pursue them with my bow! Thanks for the informative thread.

My buddy goes 320lbs...this is a very large cow.

Hope that helps.

 

[RosinBag]

I think this info is incomplete at best. Shots that were made into the “vitals,” what were the results?

If I read it correctly 18 or 19 elk were shot and only 11 recovered, that is a poor number overall. I would suspect it is a result of poor shot placement than anything.

 

[elkduds]

Bulls lost in the field- 7 or 8 total

Elk killed in the field- 11

40% of elk shot were not recovered. That is not because of broadhead selection.

 

[TrueAt1stLight]

View attachment 124750

My buddy goes 320lbs...this is a very large cow.

Hope that helps.

Holy $hit! Makes my whitetails look like lunchbox specials!

 

[the_bowhunter]

I think this info is incomplete at best. Shots that were made into the “vitals,” what were the results?

If I read it correctly 18 or 19 elk were shot and only 11 recovered, that is a poor number overall. I would suspect it is a result of poor shot placement than anything.

You are right shot placement kills elk. As I have written above, the one instance where the mechanical broadhead failed to open still killed the elk because the shot placement was spot on.

Unfortunately, I do not have a perfect memory and can only remember so much from a busy season of guiding. If you find this information to not be helpful, then please add on what you believe would help other hunters.

Thanks for your input!


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[the_bowhunter]

40% of elk shot were not recovered. That is not because of broadhead selection.

There are a lot of factors that go into elk that were recovered and not recovered. Broadhead selection is one of those factors


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[RosinBag]

I think what would be helpful is the data that captures what happens when shot placement is in the vitals. My guess would be that of those that hit the vitals, it doesn’t matter what type of head was used out of an adequate bow.

Comparing two types of BH’s on poor shots with poor shot placement and even worse recovery information doesn’t really tell me much information that is relevant.

 

[pburges2]

Interesting, Thanks for posting. I have had luck with both mech. and fixed.

 

[traviswdalton]

I think what would be helpful is the data that captures what happens when shot placement is in the vitals. My guess would be that of those that hit the vitals, it doesn’t matter what type of head was used out of an adequate bow.

Comparing two types of BH’s on poor shots with poor shot placement and even worse recovery information doesn’t really tell me much information that is relevant.

I will have to disagree with you. With perfect shot placement a field point is lethal. The most valuable information is what a particular setup does on poor shot placement. I would agree that the type of broad heads used isn’t the only determining factor as to whether or not the shot is lethal. I don’t think the op was trying to put forth any conclusive evidence about mechs vs fixed. Anecdotal observations from guides and outfitters aren’t based in scientific testing methods but they do observe more shots in a year than most people do in 10 years.

I should’ve kept more detailed observations about arrow lethality during my 7 years of guiding whitetail hunts in Illinois. My opinion based on my observations is Fixed heads are better than mechs. With the exception of gut shots. 100% recovery on gut-shot deer with mechs.

Almost every guide and outfitter I talk to recommends fixed heads over mechanical.


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[Btaylor]

What could be useful is recording bow, arrow and broadhead info as well as shot placement. But even that is incomplete because it fails to address tuning which is of significant importance as far as terminal performance is concerned.

Some might say outfitters should make guys shoot at camp before going in to the field but have been around lots of guys who could shoot lights out on a target with people watching but put hair on it and they were as liable to hit one in the ass as they were to hit the vitals. If you hunt long enough bad hits are going to happen due to a defelction or the animal moves as the shot breaks etc but 40% is just sad.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Here is some data that is from a well known deer tracker on facebook that has a dog that is extremely successful at what it does. Granted we don't know the set ups of these bows and what arrow weight. Take the information for what it is worth. I can only imagine the stats can be compounded on elk because of their size.


Tracking Statistics for the 2017 and 2018 Tracking Seasons (Archery Only)

- We recovered 50% of all tracks that we went on (firearm and archery).

- 58% of our archery tracks were for compound bows and 42% were for crossbows. Compounds had a recovery rate of 53% and crossbows had a recovery rate of 55%.

- 55% of our tracks were for passthrough shots and 45% were for non-passthrough shots. Passthrough shots had a recovery rate of 68% while non-passthrough shots had a recovery rate of only 29%. 79% of fixed broadheads were passthroughs and 44% of mechanical broadheads were passthroughs.

- Crossbow tracks were 0% fixed broadheads and 100% mechanical while compound bow tracks were 53% fixed broadheads and 47% mechanical.

- Fixed broadheads made up 31% of our tracks and mechanical broadheads made up 69%. Recovery rates for fixed were 60% and mechanicals were 47% (Note: Front deploying mechanicals had a 7% better recovery rate than rear deploying mechanicals but rear deploying heads had a 10% better passthrough rate compared to front deploying heads.).

- The average total distance from the shot location to the recovered deer was 487 yards.

- 3 deer were recovered within 50 yards of water but only 1 deer was recovered that we feel intentionally went to water to drink.

- 26% of unrecovered deer were later confirmed "still alive" after tracking (trail cam, visual confirmation, harvested later in the season, etc.).

- The average shot distance for all tracks was 25.9 yards.

- The average age of all tracks was 13.4 hours old.

- Based on each hunter's report and analysis of recovered deer, 85% of all shots impacted the chest or abdominal cavity.

- 31% of shot deer were tracked too soon by the hunter and subsequently, they bumped the deer.

- Our tracking consisted of 80.5% requests for buck recovery and 19.5% requests for doe recovery.







(Updated 11-10-18) It's the peak of tracking season which means I have almost zero free time to edit and post videos of past tracks. As soon as things ease up, I'll resume the uploads. In the meantime, here are a few stats from this season so far.

Tracks: 27
Recoveries: 16
Confirmed Alive After Tracking: 2
Avg. Age of Track: 14.6 hours
Avg. Shot distance: 32.4 yds
Buck Tracks: 76.6%
Doe Tracks: 23.4%
Passthrough Recovery Rate: 75%
Non-Passthrough Recovery Rate: 12.5%
Avg. Advancement of Recovery Tracks: 297 yards
Avg. Advancement of Non-Recovery Tracks: 254 yards
Avg. Recovery Rate for Fixed Broadheads: 57.1%
Avg. Recovery Rate for Mechanicals: 52.9%
Top 3 Reasons for Tracking Request:
- 1) Arrow Penetration (minimal internal damage)
- 2) Tracked too soon/jumped deer
- 3) Shot placement

 

[traviswdalton]

Here is some data that is from a well known deer tracker on facebook that has a dog that is extremely successful at what it does. That the information for what it is worth. I can only imagine the stats can be compounded on elk because of their size.


Tracking Statistics for the 2017 and 2018 Tracking Seasons (Archery Only)

- We recovered 50% of all tracks that we went on (firearm and archery).

- 58% of our archery tracks were for compound bows and 42% were for crossbows. Compounds had a recovery rate of 53% and crossbows had a recovery rate of 55%.

- 55% of our tracks were for passthrough shots and 45% were for non-passthrough shots. Passthrough shots had a recovery rate of 68% while non-passthrough shots had a recovery rate of only 29%. 79% of fixed broadheads were passthroughs and 44% of mechanical broadheads were passthroughs.

- Crossbow tracks were 0% fixed broadheads and 100% mechanical while compound bow tracks were 53% fixed broadheads and 47% mechanical.

- Fixed broadheads made up 31% of our tracks and mechanical broadheads made up 69%. Recovery rates for fixed were 60% and mechanicals were 47% (Note: Front deploying mechanicals had a 7% better recovery rate than rear deploying mechanicals but rear deploying heads had a 10% better passthrough rate compared to front deploying heads.).

- The average total distance from the shot location to the recovered deer was 487 yards.

- 3 deer were recovered within 50 yards of water but only 1 deer was recovered that we feel intentionally went to water to drink.

- 26% of unrecovered deer were later confirmed "still alive" after tracking (trail cam, visual confirmation, harvested later in the season, etc.).

- The average shot distance for all tracks was 25.9 yards.

- The average age of all tracks was 13.4 hours old.

- Based on each hunter's report and analysis of recovered deer, 85% of all shots impacted the chest or abdominal cavity.

- 31% of shot deer were tracked too soon by the hunter and subsequently, they bumped the deer.

- Our tracking consisted of 80.5% requests for buck recovery and 19.5% requests for doe recovery.







(Updated 11-10-18) It's the peak of tracking season which means I have almost zero free time to edit and post videos of past tracks. As soon as things ease up, I'll resume the uploads. In the meantime, here are a few stats from this season so far.

Tracks: 27
Recoveries: 16
Confirmed Alive After Tracking: 2
Avg. Age of Track: 14.6 hours
Avg. Shot distance: 32.4 yds
Buck Tracks: 76.6%
Doe Tracks: 23.4%
Passthrough Recovery Rate: 75%
Non-Passthrough Recovery Rate: 12.5%
Avg. Advancement of Recovery Tracks: 297 yards
Avg. Advancement of Non-Recovery Tracks: 254 yards
Avg. Recovery Rate for Fixed Broadheads: 57.1%
Avg. Recovery Rate for Mechanicals: 52.9%
Top 3 Reasons for Tracking Request:
- 1) Arrow Penetration (minimal internal damage)
- 2) Tracked too soon/jumped deer
- 3) Shot placement

Some interesting data. Pass through regardless of broad heads seems to be a huge advantage on recovery.


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[BeaverHunter]

I think what would be helpful is the data that captures what happens when shot placement is in the vitals. My guess would be that of those that hit the vitals, it doesn’t matter what type of head was used out of an adequate bow.

Comparing two types of BH’s on poor shots with poor shot placement and even worse recovery information doesn’t really tell me much information that is relevant.

You should present some information that would be helpful to us all (assuming you have it). I thought this info was informative and gave me something to think about. Just because it didn’t give you any information doesn’t mean it wasn’t helpful to some of us.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Some interesting data. Pass through regardless of broad heads seems to be a huge advantage on recovery.


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Yep. There is a podcast also with this individual explaining his data. If y'all would like to listen it is Lethal Podcast episode 21.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/anchor-podcasts/lethal-podcast-2/e/62226376

 

[5MilesBack]

Too many variables to track to make any confident conclusions from recovery data. Those not recovered give no data because you have no idea what happened......bad hit, deflection, etc. We also have no idea on the tuning of the bow, arrow flight, etc. Add in draw weight, draw length, arrow weight, etc and that's a lot of variables. Then add in the most important variable.......the shooter. If you read enough on these forums you'll come to the conclusion that most bowhunters can't hit the broadside of a barn in good conditions.

 

[the_bowhunter]

Too many variables to track to make any confident conclusions from recovery data. Those not recovered give no data because you have no idea what happened......bad hit, deflection, etc. We also have no idea on the tuning of the bow, arrow flight, etc. Add in draw weight, draw length, arrow weight, etc and that's a lot of variables. Then add in the most important variable.......the shooter. If you read enough on these forums you'll come to the conclusion that most bowhunters can't hit the broadside of a barn in good conditions.

Agreed. Most of our misses by our bow hunter were under 20 yards. Stuff starts happening and the blood starts pumping and you lose all previous knowledge of how to shoot and just let her fly


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