Evoke training vs MTN tough

[skipper907]

for the guys doing the evoke backcountry plans, how crucial is the stair machine? can a guy substitute a treadmill?

evoke stated if you need to make/want to make changes to contact them. They seem very easy to work with

 

[ThunderJack49]

for the guys doing the evoke backcountry plans, how crucial is the stair machine? can a guy substitute a treadmill?

You don't have to have one or the other. Incline treadmill is a great tool and will likely get you where you need to be.
They have strong opinions on which machines are best but don't put the cart before the horse.
Incline treadmill works and start accumulating time in zone 2. I think of the stair master as a very steep hike and an incline treadmill is more like hiking a slightly less steep road or trail.
There are subtle differences certainly but likely your fitness level isn't so incredibly high and your training or goals so specific that it matters.

 

[ThunderJack49]

I’ve been doing MTNTOUGH for almost 4 years now, mostly the MGDs. About a year ago I learned more about zone 2. So what I do now is the strength days and on their “recovery” days I will ride the stationary bike or go for a ruck and a bit of core work.

You must know Hillary then.

 

[P Carter]

Which book would be more applicable to what we are looking to improve? It seems like the Training for the Uphill Athlete might be a better fit, but I know Training for the New Alpinism was previously recommended.

Training for the new alpinism will apply more directly. Uphill athlete applies mainly to runners and skiers.

Both include the same concepts, but New Alpinism focuses a bit more on strength and weighted carries, whereas Uphill Athlete focuses a bit more on bodyweight strength and uphill unweighted intervals.

 

[Norcal18]

You must know Hillary then.

Nope, does she do something similar?

 

[Heath Hansen]

I did Mtntough for a few years and switched to ridge line athlete about a year ago. I enjoy the workouts more and feel like they are more targeted. They don’t have a blanket program like mtntough. The workouts are added weekly and adjusted based on user feedback. It’s through a good app that also tracks your weight and reps for exercises. I have no complaints with Mtntough, I just like this program more.

 

[Wprinkle]

Can you elaborate on the statement about being able to break down / utilize proteins at elevation? I was unaware of this. I live at about 100 ft ASL. Every time I have ever been hunting out west (7,000 ft up to 10,500 ft ASL), my digestive system (#2) is ‘off’.

It is in the book mentioned, I don't remember an exact elevation but 15,000' sticks out in my brain.

 

[Poser]

Can you elaborate on the statement about being able to break down / utilize proteins at elevation? I was unaware of this. I live at about 100 ft ASL. Every time I have ever been hunting out west (7,000 ft up to 10,500 ft ASL), my digestive system (#2) is ‘off’.

Its higher than you'll ever be for hunting -around 18,000 feet. At a certain elevation, the body is no longer acclimating, only deteriorating and normal functions cease. At ~18,000 feet, an acclimated body will struggle to digest fat and proteins. At around 23,000 feet, its simply can no longer do the task. High altitude mountaineers often only eat Couscous for this reason.

What you are experiencing at moderate elevations is gas expansion issues combined with dehydration. The same thing that happens to potato chip bags is happening inside your guts. The only way you can effectively deal with this is to acclimate more slowly. Big elevation jumps will result in gas expansion and this is why you don't have an appetite and have issues.

 

[movett]

I used Uphill Athlete prior to Scott Johnson spinning off and starting Evoke and have trained with model put out by Training for New Alpinism. Come from a climbing background. There grounding is solid and they hands down know what there doing. Got a fair number of friends using Evoke for longer Denali type climbing expeditions where they are moving with 50lb packs or heavier to establish multiple base camps over the course of a month or more. The training works hands down.

 

[C.F.]

Im a flat lander from sea level and I tried to do MTN tough but the work outs were just insanely demanding, and hard to pull off at a moderately equipped busy gym. They were most certainly CrossFit/HIIT focused. Ended up canceling it and getting an actual CrossFit membership for a year.
The following year I went back to a regular gym and focused on zone 2 , incline treadmill and stairmaster, and single leg exercises. Also, 6 weeks out from elk camp, I found the steepest hill I could find in the woods at home and would hike it for an hour with a pack once a week. This training made a fairly big difference on the mountain compared to the CrossFit style I was doing earlier.
After hearing the exo podcast I went out and bought the 20 week evoke program. Going to start it this week hopefully. It certainly looks like it comes with a large time commitment, 6 days on, 1 day off. Excited to try and see it through to the end and report back after elk season.

 

[hibernation]

I tried to do MTN tough but the work outs were just insanely demanding, and hard to pull off at a moderately equipped busy gym.

This doesn't get mentioned enough, but so many of those workouts are circuit-based and require you to tie up multiple pieces of equipment at once. That just isn't practical for most people.

 

[C.F.]

Just an update on the 20 week evoke hunting plan :
I’m 3 days in and have found the app (training peaks) user interface rather confusing. Completing cardio workouts and logging the Information, as well as, determining what parameters I am shooting for has been quite complex. I’m going to schedule a call with them at this point to sort out these issues.
I’ll try to update this thread and hopefully do a review at the end of the 20 week program. Also final thoughts after my elk hunt in September.

 

[mad_angler]

Just an update on the 20 week evoke hunting plan :
I’m 3 days in and have found the app (training peaks) user interface rather confusing. Completing cardio workouts and logging the Information, as well as, determining what parameters I am shooting for has been quite complex. I’m going to schedule a call with them at this point to sort out these issues.
I’ll try to update this thread and hopefully do a review at the end of the 20 week program. Also final thoughts after my elk hunt in September.

I talked with a coach last year and got a custom plan.
This year, I purchased the 28 week program.

Training Peaks does take a little time to get used to.
I have a Coros watch. Coros automatically updates the cardio workouts to training peaks.
For the strength workouts, I just do them and selected "complete as planned" using the training peak app.

Also, there are some things that are easier to do on the website version of training peaks compared to the app...

 

[P Carter]

I talked with a coach last year and got a custom plan.
This year, I purchased the 28 week program.

Training Peaks does take a little time to get used to.
I have a Coros watch. Coros automatically updates the cardio workouts to training peaks.
For the strength workouts, I just do them and selected "complete as planned" using the training peak app.

Also, there are some things that are easier to do on the website version of training peaks compared to the app...

I’ve just done stock plans. Agree that TP was easier to use from a computer than a phone. My watch (suunto) would upload both strength and endurance workouts without issues, but I’d often use a computer to swap workouts in the calendar and otherwise modify the plan. Couldn’t do that on my phone.