Evoke training vs MTN tough

[louisianahunter]

I personal do not think MTN tough has much endurance focus to it ( endurance being zone 2 ish stuff. MTN tough does a lot of strength amrap's I feel. I have been doing there MGD's going on 2year and feel I am doing a crossfit'ish workouts. I like a lot of things about MTN tough, I just don't feel it is good training for the backcountry and will not renew ( I am only doing it a second yr because I forgot to cancel it).

I added in the uphill athlete free training supplement last yr and felt my legs were a lot stronger resilient.

Just looked on their website and I dont see a free training program. You have it by chance? I'm also looking for a new program heavy in zone 2.

 

[Wprinkle]

I implore you to first read/listen to a book called "Training for the New Alpinism" https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81nW+2St3jL._SY425_.jpg. If you're dumb like me, audio book and listen to it a couple times. You will gain an very in-depth understanding of how you body functions in the mountains, what it needs to function, and ways to gain those functions.. fast twitch, slow twitch, zone 2, strength without muscle mass, how when and what to eat (yes elevation matters, we can not break down proteins after a certain elevation) etc. Once you really understand those things you can basically pull from a lot of programs to be optimized.

As stated above the "programs" don't sell because they are not sexy. They are extremely boring and take 1500+ hours of slow boring training a year.

Another issue with cookie cutter programs is we are all extremely different. If you were in the womb and born at higher elevations (10,000+) you have a larger heart and lungs than someone born at 10' elevation. Do you live at elevation vs sea-level? Body type is a major factor. @Braaap is absolutely going to destroy me up a mountain, hes built to, Throw 2 elk quarters and camp on each of our backs and I probably have the advantage. Not sure about everyone else but 2 quarter and camp on my back makes up for about 5% of any given hunt for me. So I have to heavily focus on zone 2 training. As where the little fn mountain goat that can sprint up the mountain and never breathe hard could probably focus more on slow twitch, heavy muscle work.

Save time, money and wasted training by reading the above book and go from there. Anything is better than nothing but if you are really wanted to be optimized you're going to have to perfects your physical strengths and take your weaknesses to strengths.

 

[skipper907]

Just looked on their website and I dont see a free training program. You have it by chance? I'm also looking for a new program heavy in zone 2.

Are you looking for MTN free zone 2 program ? If so I have not seen one or have I seen MTN with anything related to zone 2 work.
I do have a uphill athlete paper. Its not a workout its a supplement to add to zone 2 training

 

[pattimusprime22]

Scott does a full walkthrough of Training for the Uphill Athlete book, chapter by chapter, AND IT'S FREE:

Evoke Endurance: Book club

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With how much info they put out there for free, I feel like the price of their training plans is a steal.

Take their new 20 week Backcountry Hunting program for $65, with coupon code EXO through the end of April brings it down to $50. AND YOU OWN IT FOREVER. You can reuse year after year. Compare that to MTN Tough, which is $30 per month. 2 months of training is more expensive than something you can use forever. Comparing the first cycle of the program (5 months) it'd be $50 vs $150. Just from a price perspective (and ignoring the clear difference in results), it would be very hard to justify MTN Tough.

 

[hibernation]

Scott does a full walkthrough of Training for the Uphill Athlete book, chapter by chapter, AND IT'S FREE:

Evoke Endurance: Book club

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

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With how much info they put out there for free, I feel like the price of their training plans is a steal.

Take their new 20 week Backcountry Hunting program for $65, with coupon code EXO through the end of April brings it down to $50. AND YOU OWN IT FOREVER. You can reuse year after year. Compare that to MTN Tough, which is $30 per month. 2 months of training is more expensive than something you can use forever. Comparing the first cycle of the program (5 months) it'd be $50 vs $150. Just from a price perspective (and ignoring the clear difference in results), it would be very hard to justify MTN Tough.

I would just add that while you do "own" the plan forever, it's only through TrainingPeaks. The programming itself is great but the last time I used it, I really disliked only being able to interact with it through their website / app. Some people may like it, but I would've tremendously preferred a plain old PDF broken down week-by-week.

 

[pattimusprime22]

I would just add that while you do "own" the plan forever, it's only through TrainingPeaks. The programming itself is great but the last time I used it, I really disliked only being able to interact with it through their website / app. Some people may like it, but I would've tremendously preferred a plain old PDF broken down week-by-week.

That's true. I guess it didn't seem like an issue for me since I already use TrainingPeaks. You can use TrainingPeaks for free and have full access to see all the workouts, but if you want to rearrange workouts on the calendar you need to use the paid version.

 

[louisianahunter]

Are you looking for MTN free zone 2 program ? If so I have not seen one or have I seen MTN with anything related to zone 2 work.
I do have a uphill athlete paper. Its not a workout its a supplement to add to zone 2 training

Yeah that's exactly what I'm looking for actually. I'm considering buying the program as it is but hoping to get a little more insight. I run a fair amount and live below sea level (no joke). So my situation is unique but I'll definitely be increase the amount of zone 2 with weight. Wanted to see what they recommend as supplemental training on the zone 2.

 

[louisianahunter]

Scott does a full walkthrough of Training for the Uphill Athlete book, chapter by chapter, AND IT'S FREE:

Evoke Endurance: Book club

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

youtube.com

With how much info they put out there for free, I feel like the price of their training plans is a steal.

Take their new 20 week Backcountry Hunting program for $65, with coupon code EXO through the end of April brings it down to $50. AND YOU OWN IT FOREVER. You can reuse year after year. Compare that to MTN Tough, which is $30 per month. 2 months of training is more expensive than something you can use forever. Comparing the first cycle of the program (5 months) it'd be $50 vs $150. Just from a price perspective (and ignoring the clear difference in results), it would be very hard to justify MTN Tough.

Yeah I'm likely going to buy it. Already have the audio book downloaded to audible so I'll be listening soon. Curious if you know the difference between the 20 week and 28 week programs?

 

[P Carter]

Yeah I'm likely going to buy it. Already have the audio book downloaded to audible so I'll be listening soon. Curious if you know the difference between the 20 week and 28 week programs?

The Hunt backcountry podcast just had the author of these plans on. The 28 week plan contains a longer aerobic base portion. 20 week was designed to hit the upcoming fall season. They also have a discount code. If in doubt, probably makes sense to get the 28 week program and revise as needed. Or, just guess what the extra eight weeks are: zone 2 5-6 days of the week, building 10% per week, starting at maybe 30 minutes each, several shorter sessions during the week and one long workout on the weekend?

All evokes plans follow the general principles in the books, which is roughly this. The nuances are in the particular strength and muscular endurance progressions.

 

[pattimusprime22]

Yeah I'm likely going to buy it. Already have the audio book downloaded to audible so I'll be listening soon. Curious if you know the difference between the 20 week and 28 week programs?

What P Carter said

Not that the price difference is that much, but the 28 week program is slightly more than the 20 week program.

 

[skipper907]

Yeah that's exactly what I'm looking for actually. I'm considering buying the program as it is but hoping to get a little more insight. I run a fair amount and live below sea level (no joke). So my situation is unique but I'll definitely be increase the amount of zone 2 with weight. Wanted to see what they recommend as supplemental training on the zone 2.

Muscular Endurance: All You Need to Know

Over the past 20 years I’ve written and spoken many thousands of words about Muscular Endurance training. Both Training for the New Alpinism and Training for the Uphill Athlete have entire sections of the book devoted to the topic. Articles like Vertical Beast Mode that remain on UphillAthlete.com.

evokeendurance.com

this is what I have

 

[rds1865]

Years ago I was an age group competitive middle distance road and trail runner (5K - 30K) and sprint triathlete. I was never better at covering ground in the mountains. However, heavy pack outs were a problem due to missing strength, activity specific capacity.

I’d gotten away from my cardio strongest days as of late, leaning more into high intensity training (MtnTough, CrossFit, etc.) after winter strength training.

Bumping into the Evoke team earlier this year, rekindled what I already knew, aerobic capacity is the biggest lever for mountain fitness.

Booked a private call with Evoke - John Frieh - to discuss the program, my background, current age/status. Great experience with him on the call. The spirit and intention of the leadership and the company seem top notch in my early engagement with them.

Excited to get back to this type of conditioning and prep. The value they have put together is really impressive and under what I believe it is really worth in the world or pursuit specific programming - the lifetime updates and free access to Training Peaks base service makes it all the better.

I’m putting any ego and “what I like to do” workouts aside and leaning into it - look forward to a great fall.

As I age, it’s all the more necessary.

 

[CaliforniaMuley]

The best program is the one you do consistently.