Ethics of the front shoulder shot on Mule Deer

[Curtis C]

I have to agree with Extorminators post

I could never take a shot that I thought needed to have a planned finishing shot. I'm not trying to criticize second shots to finish but I always try to put my first in vitals that will kill the critter ASAP.

I would consider a shoulder area shot only if I felt it would get into vitals

 

[Jon Boy]

Well put.

I once shot a big muley with a 180 gr bullet out of a 30-06 from about 100 yds directly in the front shoulder and the bullet never entered the rib cage. Finally got him a couple hours later. No way I would intentionally put an arrow there.

What kind of bullet was it? I almost exclusively go for a shoulder shot with a rifle given the chance, DRT every time with a well constructed bullet . With a bow, now way in hell im any where near it.

 

[Shane]

Well put.

I once shot a big muley with a 180 gr bullet out of a 30-06 from about 100 yds directly in the front shoulder and the bullet never entered the rib cage. Finally got him a couple hours later. No way I would intentionally put an arrow there.

What kind of bullet was that? Oops, Jon Boy beat me to it.

 

[Jared Lampton]

What kind of bullet was it? I almost exclusively go for a shoulder shot with a rifle given the chance, DRT every time with a well constructed bullet . With a bow, now way in hell im any where near it.

180gr Speer Grand Slam. The bullet completely pulverized the shoulder but the bullet was in pieces as well. He bedded down with in 100 yds but I bumped him up and he went across some really rough country for about a 1/2 mile before I got another shot at him. I knew where I had hit him on that first shot and was really confused as to why he went so far. So when I finally killed him I inspected the rib cage to see what had happened.

 

[Maxhunter]

Only take high percentage shots. Shooting for the shoulders is asking for trouble and likely an unrecovered deer.

 

[MattB]

Bad idea. A friend of mine is a blacktail guide/tracking machine and has watched ~150bucks die by arrow. He has never had a hunter successfully penetrate 1 scapula (let alone 2) and kill a buck. The notion that all it takes to break one (let alone two) scapulas with an arrow is enough KE shows a lack of understanding of the structure. There is a very good reason that the tried and true double lung in the recommended shot placement with an arrow.

 

[Ray]

If the two Deer shot in their shoulders and dropped when hit, they had to had been hit in the spine. There is no instant death vital organ that high behind the shoulder. There are parts of the lungs and some veins and arteries, but cutting any of that stuff will not create an instant kill. Cutting muscle and poking holes through some thin bones will not result in a quick death by "breaking" the shoulder.

 

[Coyote Commander]

"I shot a critter once in the (insert part here) and it worked great".


Thats how I envision these types of threads and stories. Guy screws up, makes a horrible hit ONE time, but gets lucky and it works out great that ONE time. Than they either wont admit they only got lucky, and/or they start to tell others how shooting critters in (insert part here) is the way to go.

Law of averages people. Law of averages. Theres a reason nobody with half a brain promotes shoulder shooting critters with archery gear.


I would surmise the long range stories are similar. Guy gets lucky and kills a critter at 80-90 yards with a bow ONE time, and starts to promote it. Of course, rarely do guys tell others of the many situations like this that went sour.

 

[Joee]

I don't know what everybody seems to see as the problem. I have seen MANY animals taken down with a front shoulder shot and none have taken another step. These have all been rifle shots but the only thing I would see "unethical" is you waste one or both shoulders that way. If its the only shot I have I'll take it.

 

[Hardstalk]

Am I the only one who thinks as soon as the word ethics is mentioned in / and or used in a topic. It ends up heading south quickly?

 

[wapitibob]

I don't know what everybody seems to see as the problem. I have seen MANY animals taken down with a front shoulder shot and none have taken another step. These have all been rifle shots but the only thing I would see "unethical" is you waste one or both shoulders that way. If its the only shot I have I'll take it.

The difference is the rifle vs bow. A high shoulder shot with a bow won't touch the lungs and won't shock the spinal column.

 

[bowinhand]

Why increase the margin of error? why not go for the sure thing? Shot placement is the most important then a well tuned arrow bow set up and a scary sharp broadhead and you won't have to track far especially on deer. Myself, I aim for the top of the heart and lungs. "kinetic energy" is for fire arms and that's why I won't shoot mechanical broadheads, sure they might work but why take a chance? One question, is a high shoulder shot and a spine shot similar if you have enough "KE"?

 

[whitingja]

So are people saying an arrow moving at 300 fps will not break a shoulder blade or even go through it enough to be lethal, or at least knock it down. Not saying I am all in favor of the shot, but a shoulder blade is a bigger target than a heart. And if it knocks the animal down immediately or prevents it from running off, allowing a quick follow up shot, isn't this acceptable. I have seen a double lung shot, even a heart shot result in a tracking job of 75 to 200 yards, maybe more. So which is more ethical? Being a devils advocate. And is there really a sure thing?

 

[MattB]

So are people saying an arrow moving at 300 fps will not break a shoulder blade or even go through it enough to be lethal, or at least knock it down.

Basically, yes - at least not reliably enough to render this as a sensible shot placement. The notion that if you hit the scapula with an arrow that you will knock the animal down or temporarily incapacitate it is just short of a pipe dream. I am not saying it has never happened, but that I have seen a number of scapula hits as have friends of mine and I have never heard of that reaction occurring. More likely the animal will run off never to be found. If the broadhead does pass through the scapula, the animal may die from whatever inflicted on the far side of the scapula, likely the lungs. Why not shoot at the lungs behind/below the scapula and take the bone out of the equations?

Simply put, arrows are not bullets.

 

[ckleeves]

So are people saying an arrow moving at 300 fps will not break a shoulder blade or even go through it enough to be lethal, or at least knock it down. Not saying I am all in favor of the shot, but a shoulder blade is a bigger target than a heart. And if it knocks the animal down immediately or prevents it from running off, allowing a quick follow up shot, isn't this acceptable. I have seen a double lung shot, even a heart shot result in a tracking job of 75 to 200 yards, maybe more. So which is more ethical? Being a devils advocate. And is there really a sure thing?

A single shoulder hit doesn't prevent a animal from running off. About 10 years ago (archery) I hit a Muley buck at very close range quartered slightly towards. Broke the humerus and took out the heart and got a pass thru. The buck held that leg off the ground and made it about 40 yards before going down. I'm confident he would have gone the same distance without the shoulder being broken.

Not advocating the shot at all it was a bad shot. But to think your gonna get a follow up shot Is foolish IMO.

 

[Ethan S.]

Yeah, it's a bad idea. There shouldn't even be any discussion about it.

 

[PhillyB]

Am I the only one who thinks as soon as the word ethics is mentioned in / and or used in a topic. It ends up heading south quickly?

Hardstalk- I know that now : ) I will be a little more careful in future topics.

I should have went with 'thoughts' rather than 'ethics'

 

[Backpack Hunter]

On a nice broadside shot I tend to go straight up the leg about a 1/3 of the way up, don't really recommend shooting much higher or much further forward.

 

[BigSurArcher]

"Front" shoulder? Where is a deer's back shoulder located?

 

[Lukem]

I once shot a mulie doe and broke both hind legs (both femurs)...massive flinch when I realized there was something in my sight picture I didn't originally see right as I was squeezing the trigger. It worked once. Wouldn't ever recommend it as a targeted shot. Go for the goods. This is definitely a GIF.