Ethical “Time of Flight” for Shot on Game

[UTJL]

Personal decision is all. I don’t necessarily like to shoot long, or seek out far shots. But I will, if opportunities arise, and I can’t close the distance due to terrain.

I appreciate the open conversation even when we may not see eye to eye on things. I’ve never shot anything at long range but have started practicing out to 900. The amount of factors that need to be accurately accounted for was surprising.

 

[UTJL]

It hasn’t taken a step backwards- hunters have always flung rounds willynilly. This massive level of ethical shooting with animals is largely made up nonsense. One can read old books (Jack O’Conner for instance) and see that they were flinging rounds as much as anyone today.

I fully agree and think it’s similar across different weapons, species, etc. Unfortunately it seems to be human nature to overestimate our abilities.

As someone who’s probably in the top 0.1% in terms of training with your weapon, how do you suggest hunters generally decide whether to take a shot or not?

 

[Formidilosus]

That’s just what you tell yourself to feel better.

I don’t need to feel anything- I have missed the first shot 4 times out of the last 200 game animals- none at long range.

Are you saying that the old ethical hunters didn’t write about missing and wounding frequently?

 

[Formidilosus]

As someone who’s probably in the top 0.1% in terms of training with your weapon, how do you suggest hunters generally decide whether to take a shot or not?

It’s a simple answer, but hard to accomplish. Practice regularly in a structured way from field conditions, test in novel conditions, and do not shoot at ranges and in situations beyond where you regularly and consistently practice and prove your competency. Then kill and learn limits.

I.E., if you haven’t shot in steep mountainous conditions at 450 yards for hundreds of rounds a year, hit first round an demand- don’t take a 450 yard shot on an animal in steep mountainous conditions.

 

[Hnthrdr]

I fully agree and think it’s similar across different weapons, species, etc. Unfortunately it seems to be human nature to overestimate our abilities.

As someone who’s probably in the top 0.1% in terms of training with your weapon, how do you suggest hunters generally decide whether to take a shot or not?

Some of if not the best practice comes from coyote hunting in the mountains IMO… nothing replaces shooting at a live target, I get it’s not possible for everyone, but it’s a pretty good way to improve marksmanship plus can be done year round, I get you often don’t get a lot of shots or call ins but kind of raises the BP when you do get a yote in your sights

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t need to feel anything- I have missed the first shot 4 times out of the last 200 game animals- none at long range.

Are you saying that the old ethical hunters didn’t write about missing and wounding frequently?

I’m saying ethics justification doesnt come out of a book of other people’s actions.

Oh, and your statistics have gotten much better than the last time we talked about it. You used to say missing 1 out of 10 times was acceptable and normal ow you’re hitting 98%. Good for you.

 

[TradLife406]

For this newb I went off what the Hornady boys said. Try and keep it to a max if one second. Which is plenty far for me and my 6.5 PRC. Gets me out to about 800. Which is poke and a half. Especially considering how bad the wind blows on the Montana prairie.

 

[General RE LEE]

For this newb I went off what the Hornady boys said. Try and keep it to a max if one second. Which is plenty far for me and my 6.5 PRC. Gets me out to about 800. Which is poke and a half. Especially considering how bad the wind blows on the Montana prairie.

I saw that podcast and Jayden’s time of flight comment stuck with me.

 

[UTJL]

It’s a simple answer, but hard to accomplish. Practice regularly in a structured way from field conditions, test in novel conditions, and do not shoot at ranges and in situations beyond where you regularly and consistently practice and prove your competency. Then kill and learn limits.

I.E., if you haven’t shot in steep mountainous conditions at 450 yards for hundreds of rounds a year, hit first round an demand- don’t take a 450 yard shot on an animal in steep mountainous conditions.

Thanks, it’s along the lines of what I thought you’d say but still informative

 

[ddowning]

Says the guy who was regularly hitting the 2 MOA 1,000 yard gong with said .243 in 5-15 MPH varying winds and blowing dust/mirage

I think he has a very good handle on what he is doing. While the ability to do that is extraordinary, 20" is much larger than the vital area of a deer. Also, unless the gong is being placed in a different scenario for every shot, this is a much different situation than shooting in the same area at the same gong, as the terrain effects on wind and the wind speed indicators will be different at other locations. Once you get a feel for a particular place, it becomes much easier to hit targets in tricky conditions. I'm pretty sure, based on your posts, you know this already. I just don't want someone else to read it and think because they can go to their local range and hit the 1000 yard gong consistently that they're ready for shots on game in mountains or varied terrain at 1000 yards.

 

[ddowning]

I'm sure this isn't always the case, but I feel like it is often. Guys that ask these questions are looking for concrete quantitative answers because they don't shoot enough to have and accurate feel for what they can do.

If we are being honest, if you shoot enough, you can look at just about any shot opportunity and know if it is a good idea or a bad idea. I am rarely able to talk myself into shots that I'm not confident in. If you miss a shot hunting, you should be extremely surprised. It's probably not a great idea to take a shot you would be surprised if you made.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I think he has a very good handle on what he is doing. While the ability to do that is extraordinary, 20" is much larger than the vital area of a deer. Also, unless the gong is being placed in a different scenario for every shot, this is a much different situation than shooting in the same area at the same gong, as the terrain effects on wind and the wind speed indicators will be different at other locations. Once you get a feel for a particular place, it becomes much easier to hit targets in tricky conditions. I'm pretty sure, based on your posts, you know this already. I just don't want someone else to read it and think because they can go to their local range and hit the 1000 yard gong consistently that they're ready for shots on game in mountains or varied terrain at 1000 yards.

I don’t think anyone read it like that. Hopefully not anyway.

 

[ddowning]

I don’t think anyone read it like that. Hopefully not anyway.

I don't think many people that are serious would read it like that. I have had many friends that think if they buy the equipment then they are magically a capable shooter. Those types would definitely read it like that.

 

[JGRaider]

I’ll put up a $1000 and say more animals are missed and/or wounded at traditional hunting distances than at long range.

Archery hunters, muzzleloader hunters, and rifle hunters miss and wound game all the time from 0-300 yards. This is the bulk of all shots distances for hunting.

What is the exact distance animals stop acting like steel plates and start acting like animals?

Hunters need to learn to pass on shots. It really is that simple.

If there were a way to prove it I'd take that bet. Yes, hunters wound game at all ranges. I could take my non hunting daughter to the range and I guarantee she'd be much more proficient hitting 200 yard targets than 500+ ones.

The biggest problem as many mentioned is the hunter himself and the lack of objectivity. Out of the 160 or so hunters we had in our camps over the years, the vast majority of them showed up over-gunned, over-scoped, and under-practiced. The vast majority had no business shooting at animals over 300 yards.

 

[fatlander]

Anyone that hasn’t lost some animals from bad shots, hasn’t killed very much stuff or they’re liars. It happens, period. The only way to know your limits is to push them.

I’ve killed stuff at distances that don’t even need to be talked about. And I’ve missed/wounded stuff at spitting distance. As others have noted, rushed shots and bad shot selection is usually the culprit in an unfavorable outcome. Again, the only way to learn is by doing. Do your best, and try not to make the same mistakes over again.


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