Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[LBWV]

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Shot it standard for a baseline, got 18. Didn't take the last shot in the prone, I had a misfeed in the medley that left me without enough time. 17-18 is probably about right though as an average, though I haven't kept close track.

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Started the biathlon, decided to call it after the untimed round. I dressed for being static @ 10F and exercising at 30F was not going well. Took tops off but wasn't committed enough to take my pants off. Based on how it went, I think best case I could get 50% on the timed portion had I continued. I could break OKAY shots (not great) but it took a fair amount more patience to do so.

Nice work. Thanks for trying it.

I’m hoping to do it in the next week. I’ll post my results.

 

[HighUintas]

@Carl Ross , you did that with your regular hunting weight rifle? Not that it would matter, but I assume your comp guns are really heavy and wonder if that has any influence on ability with hunting weight gun.

I was thinking I need to try the drill with my 45lb pack, as that's about what it starts at on my annual backpack hunt.

 

[Carl Ross]

@Carl Ross , you did that with your regular hunting weight rifle? Not that it would matter, but I assume your comp guns are really heavy and wonder if that has any influence on ability with hunting weight gun.

I was thinking I need to try the drill with my 45lb pack, as that's about what it starts at on my annual backpack hunt.

RSS pattern 223.

I’ve never tried the drill with a PRS rig, their balance kinda sucks for things that aren’t PRS but I can still shoot them offhand if pressed. I should try sometime for kicks.

Most of my practice is discipline specific; PRS positions with a PRS gun, NRL positions with an NRL gun, hunting positions with a hunting gun. There’s obviously lots of crossover value, but I usually focus on what I’m about to actually go do.

 

[pa52855]

This isn’t in response to anyone I particular, but there is an up tick in the amount of “I want a XXXX distance hunting rifle” traffic the last few months. I am getting a lot of questions relating to this, which I do not mind helping, but thought a public post might help answer some questions. It’s an attempt to get to actually using your rifles.


People online tend to act like 600/800/whatever yards is a rifle, cartridge and BDC scope purchase away. When someone asks for advice, or says I’m building an -insert whatever rifle/cartridge you want-, people are discussing hardware not practice and skill. Lots will say that practice is a given but it is not. 6 year olds spend more time practicing T-ball, than anyone practices using a lethal instrument and taking a life. Damn near every modern CF rifle is a 600 yard hunting gun with a solid scope combined with a knowledgeable and skilled shooter. No rifle is a solid 300 yard gun without it.

That is why they recommend what they do. Very few people are skilled enough at shooting distance, and even fewer have an experience base large enough to to teach/coach people what it takes to bring someone from a box a year hunter, to on demand cleaning killing game past 200-300 yards in backpacking environments.

I have to take a couple dozen people a year and get them truly competent from 0-600m at realistic sized targets (sub 12”) from field conditions in relatively tight time constraints, under stress, when NOT using dedicated long range rifles. I.E.- not much different than hunting. So when someone is asking for help, and their first priority is anything other than practice and proficiency... I take pause. It’s not just me. There is a small minority is some threads that are trying to bring sanity to these things, but they get drowned out by the “I just built X” crowd.

Anything other than round count with structured practice that leads to on demand performance under hunting conditions is mental and ballistic masturbation. It shows up constantly on both the range and during hunting- a custom magnum rifle, with sketchy scope, and low round count, leads to missing and wounding animals.

The less someone shoots, the more reliable and consistent their rifle and scope needs to be, the smaller the cartridge needs to be, and the shorter their max range on animals needs to be- not the reverse. Ryan Avery can shoot a big magnum in a 8lb rifle well and experiment with scopes that may not be as reliable because he is shooting every week and has the ability and skill to quickly recover and diagnose when things go wrong. A quick “ah chit” moment for people that shoot several thousand rounds a year under hunting conditions, is a catastrophic rodeo that probably results in a lost animal for anyone that doesn’t practice like that.


People aren’t missing animals because they don’t have a big enough gun, or enough magnification. They miss due to lack of skill and knowledge. There is a path that consistently works to take a “normal” hunter and make them truly solid at mid ranges in a spring and summer. It’s not the only way, but it has proven to work consistently and faster than any way which I, or those I’m around have seen.


A snapshot of how someone can gain solid ability at mid range shooting by this fall...

Two cases of ammo that has low recoil, a solid and consistent rifle, a scope that unquestionably works, and practice. Rifles, scopes and cartridge/ammo is discussed Ad nauseam. The practice is conspicuously absent nearly everywhere.

A start-

Grouping prone, from a front and rear sandbag until 10 round groups are 1.5’ish MOA. Once on consistent precision from a rest is achieved, then prone over a backpack until 10 round groups are 1.5 MOA and no larger than 2 MOA on demand. Same for a bipod if using one.
Once someone can lay down at any point and hit a 2 MOA target with every round fired over a pack, then positional work needs to happen. Sitting and kneeling using alternate rests, primarily a pack if you use one, but with hiking sticks, tripod, downed trees, etc. 2 MOA targets should be consistent from these positions. Then standing using both rests and offhand.

A decent standard is offhand out to 100, standing with sticks at 100-150, sitting unsupported out to 200-250, sitting or kneeling with a pack or sticks out to 300-350, and prone with a pack, etc past that. When someone can go from standing with all straps buckled and all gear on their person, in 20 seconds or less to get two hits on targets at their desired distance/size, then worry about shooting past 100 yards and wind.


A great drill that works very well is below that a gent came up with on another board. It’s been slightly modified a bit to reflect more realistically required skills.




100 Yard Hunting Rifle Test

Print out one each of these targets and post them up at 100 yards. This works best if you are using a setup that can be zeroed dead on at 100, however if you zero at a different range (200, 300, etc) is that zero as it will show using hold unders for hitting realistic targets. Each string starts standing with all equipment in hand or on body, I.E.- wearing pack, hiking sticks in hand, etc. If you carry empty chamber- all strings start with empty chamber.

DO IT EXACTLY HOW YOU CARRY WHILE HUNTING!
(They need to be printed out at 100% scale, and then they are still in shooter MOA, not true MOA). All shot at 100 yards.


STRING 1: No time limits.

7MOA = 2 shots offhand
5MOA = 2 shots sitting unsupported
3MOA = 2 shots sitting or keeling with sticks or backpack
2MOA = 2 shots prone (can use a pack, but no rear bag, no bipod)



STRING 2: Is a repeat of string one, but with a 20 second par time. I set a timer on my phone, if the shot isn't taken BEFORE the buzzer, it doesn't count.


7MOA = 2 shots offhand in 20 seconds
5MOA = 2 shots sitting unsupported in 20 seconds
3MOA = 2 shots sitting or keeling with sticks or backpack in 20 seconds
2MOA = 2 shots prone in 15 seconds (can use pack, but no bipod and no rear bag)





STRING 3: is a "medley". One shot from each position, with a 60 second par time.

60 seconds to go fromstanding with all gear strapped in, to-

7MOA = 1 shot offhand
5MOA = 1 shot sitting unsupported
3MOA = 1 shot sitting or keeling with sticks or backpack
2MOA = 1 shot prone (can use pack, but no bipod and no rear bag)


It's scored out of 20. A decent score is in the 15/20 range, 17 to 18 should be the goal for the first year. It’s an excellent diagnostic tool as well as a great way to practice, and has a high correlation to performance with spot and stalk hunting shots.

This is an excellent explanation of what needs to be done prior to a hunt of any kind. For me the most difficult problem was the wind whether it was out west or Alaska or Africa, the local conditions have a greater influence on your shooting abilities than you realize. Wind is difficult to predict and it can be gusty at times, the best way to overcome is to practice shooting in the wind, first at a rifle range but not off of the bench but in shooting positions you will find in the field. I am still not the greatest at shooting in the field but I now know my limitations of distance and conditions that is the most important thing in ethical hunting.

 

[LBWV]

I think that's right, and even the "supported" positions still require a lot of the stability they have to come from the shooter vs say balancing a heavy rifle on a sandbag on a stable prop.

I have some work at the range tomorrow, if I have time I might give it a run.

I did the Carl Ross drill biathlon this afternoon. The last time I shot this drill (regular version) I scored a 17, but I average around 15.

I scored an 11 on the biathlon today. That biathlon score is 73% of my standard average.

Here are some things I noticed/tracked:

• Total Time: 1hr 5min
• Heart Rate: 130-150bpm during step ups (peaked at 159bpm). Dropped to 120-130 during shooting
• I usually shoot the normal drill with my pack stuffed full of sleeping bags and pillows. Having a pack with a 40lb sandbag in it changes a lot. The weight makes it harder to maneuver the pack and make small corrections on the ground. The weight does make it easier to take the pack off.
• Higher heart rate reduces cognitive function! I remember this from when we did our NRL22 Biathlon and forced ourselves to remember our dope and the course of fire for the stage. Even though this drill is much more simple it happened again during the timed sitting unsupported stage; I aimed at the wrong target. Had I aimed at the correct target one of those would have been a definite hit and my total score would have been a 12.
• On my target I wrote what my total moa size was for each position.
• I shot the untimed stage clean. The timed stages had progressively more hits the more stable the position got.

It does get a little boring, so I had music playing during my step ups.

There are certainly easier/faster ways to crank your heart rate up to see how you shoot under those conditions. That being said, I see this as killing two birds with one stone. I get to mix a good and sport specific workout in with a shooting challenge. I'll probably try to do this once a month.