Equipment versus practice posts and Rifle practice/shooting

[Lawnboi]

Nah. If you start the timed stages with the bipod as it’s carried, and the bag exactly as it’s carried it meets the intent completely. However, if you store the rear back in your pack while hunting for instance, yet start with it not in the pack fir the drill; then you’d be short changing your learning and practice.

Been trying to keep it as close as I would hunting, even going as far as to keep the caps on and the scope on 6x

 

[woods89]

I have to confess Iv cheated based on the first post a bit. Iv been using a bipod on my bigger guns and a bag, that said the bipod always comes along on a hunt if a prone shot is possible, and the bag always comes regardless. I’ll not cheat too much and use the tripod though.

I cheat too, mostly by just running it as fast as I can instead of using a timer, and sometimes shooting my 4" and 8" steel gongs, instead of the paper targets

I shot my bull in the timber this year, offhand, at 50 yds with my backpack on. It happened really fast. I have to think running versions of this drill helped that come together, as if it had taken me any longer he'd probably still be alive. I'm going to try do do this even more this off season.

 

[Lawnboi]

I cheat too, mostly by just running it as fast as I can instead of using a timer, and sometimes shooting my 4" and 8" steel gongs, instead of the paper targets

I shot my bull in the timber this year, offhand, at 50 yds with my backpack on. It happened really fast. I have to think running versions of this drill helped that come together, as if it had taken me any longer he'd probably still be alive. I'm going to try do do this even more this off season.

Hard to keep time without a shot timer, I still need to buy one. Been trying to focus more on going to the range with a game plan rather than just making the plate move or shooting little groups.

Shooting steel matches has helped a lot with speed, getting my rifle on target quickly and behind it correctly.

We need more hunting style drills @Formidilosus

 

[Antares]

We need more hunting style drills @Formidilosus

I fully agree. Not putting that on you Form to come up with them, but more hunting style drills in general would be great.

I'm trying to come up with my own. I'm lucky to have access to tons of public land with very few people. My plan is to set a "course" that has five (5) 10" plates along it from 200 to 600 yards. Try to mix in some interesting terrain and shot angles. First round hits are worth 5 points (second round hits are worth 3 points and only if you miss your first shot). Score is out of 25. Sixty second time limit. Shooters will be given the range and angle, wind calls will be up to the shooter. I'd prefer to focus on the 400+ yard shooting but I'm trying to make it accessible and rewarding for people who shoot less than I do. I'll do a write-up when I get it together this spring.

I'm also going to do a rimfire version with five (5) 6" plates from 50 to 200 yards. Same scoring. That'll be for me and my nieces and nephews mostly.

I was playing with the idea of negative points for misses to reward shooters for not attempting shots beyond there ability, but it got a little complicated so I left that idea alone for now.

I'm not totally set on the format, but that's what I'm thinking right now. I already have all the plates and ammo, so there's nothing holding me back.

@Formidilosus Any thoughts on that idea? What would you change?

 

[Formidilosus]

Been trying to keep it as close as I would hunting, even going as far as to keep the caps on and the scope on 6x

That’s the deal. I’ve seen multiple change how and what they were doing because of it- from bipods versus pack, to where they stored their rear bag, etc. It has a true transfer from skill at the drill to skill at hitting animals, more than any other drill or practice I’ve seen. When people take it seriously, there is a difference in how many opportunities they succeed in.

Honestly if used as a workout program (if you want to think of it that way) they only thing needed to add to it that is major, is full distance shooting so that dialing elevation, turning power up, making wind calls quickly and applying same, as well as follow up shots are worked in.

When I use it I use it as the basis to teach the full shooting/gunhandling skill piece. Everything from loading the gun, to manipulation of the turrets, power, and safety; to how the rifle is strapped to the pack, etc.

 

[Lawnboi]

I fully agree. Not putting that on you Form to come up with them, but more hunting style drills in general would be great.

I'm trying to come up with my own. I'm lucky to have access to tons of public land with very few people. My plan is to set a "course" that has five (5) 10" plates along it from 200 to 600 yards. Try to mix in some interesting terrain and shot angles. First round hits are worth 5 points (second round hits are worth 3 points and only if you miss your first shot). Score is out of 25. Sixty second time limit. Shooters will be given the range and angle, wind calls will be up to the shooter. I'd prefer to focus on the 400+ yard shooting but I'm trying to make it accessible and rewarding for people who shoot less than I do. I'll do a write-up when I get it together this spring.

I'm also going to do a rimfire version with five (5) 6" plates from 50 to 200 yards. Same scoring. That'll be for me and my nieces and nephews mostly.

I was playing with the idea of negative points for misses to reward shooters for not attempting shots beyond there ability, but it got a little complicated so I left that idea alone for now.

I'm not totally set on the format, but that's what I'm thinking right now. I already have all the plates and ammo, so there's nothing holding me back.

@Formidilosus Any thoughts on that idea? What would you change?

I wish I had a place I could shoot longer around here past a couple hundred yards, big woods here with little public. 400 yards is what I have reasonable access too. Been keeping an eye out on more prs style drills but the arena of hunting drills is definitely lacking.

Still the best practice I have found is shooting prairie dogs. It’s an 8 hour drive for me to the nearest dog town but man is it worth it. Setup, range and press a shot just like hunting.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus Any thoughts on that idea? What would you change?

So the we call it sniper golf. One person will set 12” targets out in NF across a valley or draw, then pick the shot locations, and everyone else will have to make the shots cold first time seeing the targets. The person that sets the targets, picks the shooting location, and they do so based on realistic positions, then they come up with a scenario that every is briefed when the walk up to the spot.

For instance, position will a rock pile, where true prone isn’t feasible, the person will walk up (everyone else is facing away where they can’t hear or see the target), the person gets told that the scenario is you spotted two bucks bedded, stalked to this point, one buck saw you and has stood up, the other is staring in your direction and looking nervous. Then they will point the target out without using binos or optics. Then tell them the shooting position is within one yard if this rock, any questions? They won’t tell them that for this scenario they have 60 seconds to hit from “go”. It’s blind and they have locate the target from within the general area, range that target, make a wind call, get into position and make the shot/shots.
Another stage might be you were hiking and surprised a bear that’s 150 yards away. Then “go” and maybe they only have ten seconds to make the shot, but again they don’t know what the time is. Another one might be a long shot, where the animals are bedded an unaware it could be unlimited time.
The point is to work the whole problem set from start to finish with only a description of the animals behavior with an unknown exact standard- like real life. It’s experiential learning and causes people to modify or change to be successful.

 

[Formidilosus]

But you don’t just shoot the hunting drill over and over. It’s a test. It shows you where you are weak, and then you work the skills that apply to that individually.

 

[Castle Rock]

Was looking for something and came across a couple of old posts and thought I might add something

About 29F in the pics. Not the warmest, but not nearly as cold as other years

I can’t even imagine hunting in those conditions, where I hunt is mostly dry and hot

Looks like I will just have to bite it and buy a shot timer.

Prepping some brass to load with some cheaper 60 tmk for the winter. Tough blowing 38 cent bullets at 100 yard paper. Post our gun deer season when the ranges die down I’m going to try and commit to shooting this drill once a week. Maybe posting my results here will keep me on it.

View attachment 345856

15 grains of H4227 and a 50 grain Nosler shot or Midway dogtown (same bullet) gives about 2400 FPS and shoots MOA in my 8 twist 223, plenty cheap and shoots very close to my TMK load.
Great for practice and I carry a few in a mag in my pocket for small stuff, it is noticeably quieter which is a bonus

 

[Helislacker]

First run today, used the T1x. Scaled targets to 50 yds. This is an excellent drill and shows deficiencies really well. I rarely if ever dry-fire standing, except off a tripod with bag. This exposed this weakness really quickly.

 

[Lawnboi]

Your cheating if you don’t have a shot timer!!!
Complying completely with the time outlined in the initial post is tough! I felt like I’m a pretty quick shooter. Steel matches have resulted in being quite a bit quicker behind the gun but man, 20 seconds to pop off 2 shots from being unprepared, you have to be on it, it also meant pushing the whole 20 seconds.

I was too lazy to draw up another target today so I just focused on prone and seated on the timer, though at 300 yards, so dialing or holding was involved. Was a definite eye opener. I’ll try to do the drill with the timer soon, but I can already tell you I’m going to time out.

Forgive me @Formidilosus for I have sinned.

 

[Formidilosus]

Your cheating if you don’t have a shot timer!!!
Complying completely with the time outlined in the initial post is tough! I felt like I’m a pretty quick shooter. Steel matches have resulted in being quite a bit quicker behind the gun but man, 20 seconds to pop off 2 shots from being unprepared, you have to be on it, it also meant pushing the whole 20 seconds.

I was too lazy to draw up another target today so I just focused on prone and seated on the timer, though at 300 yards, so dialing or holding was involved. Was a definite eye opener. I’ll try to do the drill with the timer soon, but I can already tell you I’m going to time out.

Timers might be the single best thing to increased improvement of shooting for most. I always like when people say “you only have 5-6 seconds to make a decision on a buck and get a shot off”. Ok sure. Put it on the timer and it’s more like a minute and five seconds…


As for the 300 yard version- think of that as the next step. The initial hunting rifle test is to measure and show competencies with shooting and gunhandling, however it is not the end. You need to take that skill and then start practicing at distance dealing with elevation and wind adjustments on the clock, while still keeping the same times.

 

[Lawnboi]

Timers might be the single best thing to increased improvement of shooting for most. I always like when people say “you only have 5-6 seconds to make a decision on a buck and get a shot off”. Ok sure. Put it on the timer and it’s more like a minute and five seconds…


As for the 300 yard version- think of that as the next step. The initial hunting rifle test is to measure and show competencies with shooting and gunhandling, however it is not the end. You need to take that skill and then start practicing at distance dealing with elevation and wind adjustments on the clock, while still keeping the same times.

My thoughts exactly re the timer. Iv wanted one for a long time for practicing for prs but have been too damn cheap to buy one.

Today I was just too lazy to make a target up so I gave it a go at 300, at a 6” circle, easy to throw the steel on the hanger. Seated was a challenge but it was great practice. Going to start pushing time constraints on a good portion of my shooting from now on. Remembering fundamentals while on a 20 second clock even for one round is tough, add in deploying a bipod, getting behind the rifle, caps, clocking a round and dialing, you have to know your equipment. 20 degrees, snow and gloves didn’t help either.

For those reading along, your not getting the most out of this drill without a shot timer. They are not cheap, but I’d put them up there pretty high on the list of things that will make you a better shooter.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

I missed an opportunity on a nice whitetail buck chasing a doe because I was way too slow.... in this case, I should have used my rifle instead of binoculars to examine it. It was completely safe to do so in this instance.

 

[yycyak]

People are attempting this without a shot timer!?

That @%$!^!#@ timer wrecks me every time, especially the last relay.

My thoughts exactly re the timer. Iv wanted one for a long time for practicing for prs but have been too damn cheap to buy one.

Today I was just too lazy to make a target up so I gave it a go at 300, at a 6” circle, easy to throw the steel on the hanger. Seated was a challenge but it was great practice. Going to start pushing time constraints on a good portion of my shooting from now on. Remembering fundamentals while on a 20 second clock even for one round is tough, add in deploying a bipod, getting behind the rifle, caps, clocking a round and dialing, you have to know your equipment. 20 degrees, snow and gloves didn’t help either.

For those reading along, your not getting the most out of this drill without a shot timer. They are not cheap, but I’d put them up there pretty high on the list of things that will make you a better shooter.

 

[Stu]

People are attempting this without a shot timer!?

That @%$!^!#@ timer wrecks me every time, especially the last relay.

That's the whole point!

 

[Lawnboi]

People are attempting this without a shot timer!?

That @%$!^!#@ timer wrecks me every time, especially the last relay.

It’s easy to cheat yourself without a true shot timer, especially when some of these shots take you to the final second.

 

[yycyak]

That's no joke.

The last "1min for everything" relay always takes me down to the last seconds. I've rushed the prone-off-pack final one too many times, or just run out of time.

If you're not doing this with a timer, you're not really getting the full experience. (Aka feel the suck)

It’s easy to cheat yourself without a true shot timer, especially when some of these shots take you to the final second.

 

[Macintosh]

Quick look shows there are at least 10 different shot-timer apps for a phone, only one of which is a pay app. Anyone that has tried these and can recommend one?

 

[TX_Diver]

Quick look shows there are at least 10 different shot-timer apps for a phone, only one of which is a pay app. Anyone that has tried these and can recommend one?

I didn't like the app I tried.

Get a boxing timer if you want something that you can set a countdown on and then have a timer (i.e. you could set a 10 second countdown, set your phone down behind you, and then start on the buzzer, then it'll buzz again in 20 seconds).

I have a shot timer but usually just use a regular timer to make sure I'm within the 20 seconds.