Elk season fitness-altitude issues for flatlanders

[rufe]

Go out a couple of days early and stay at altitude. They also have some pills that help your red blood cells take up more oxygen. With your workouts you should be fine.

 

[mtbraun]

Dry sauna helps with acclimation. Invest in an altitude tent. They work.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

To OP: lots of good suggestions here with the two best being arriving early and training in the heat. Time in the heat can simulate the effects of altitude before you get there.

We did a podcast with the good folks at Uphill Athlete on the topic (linked below). Chantelle (the coach I interviewed) dished out about as much information you could want on the topic in the episode.

Found here: Altitude and Performance

 

[croben]

If you can swing it, go a couple days early before season. Use that time to get a little scouting in and help acclimate yourself so you’re not so miserable when it comes time to hunt.

 

[Erussell01]

I come from sea level every year as well. I start Altitiude RX pills a day before I leave town and have never had a problem with them. We drive from about 30' elevation through the night, park, and hike in to 11,000' all in one trip. Just take the pills through the hunt and you'll be just fine. You can order them from Walmart for about $35, which is enough for about 3 people on a 7 day trip.

I'll check them out for sure! I'm trying to imagine 30 feet to 11k... that's something our forefathers never dealt with in a day that's for sure

 

[Erussell01]

Training in the heat is my best advice. You can find some academic articles on the subject. It's not quite as good as training at altitude, but it's a similar adaptation. I live in Texas and just embrace the suck in July and August. I've not had any trouble at altitude (yet). Taking it slow the first day helps.

Thank you! I don't stop training because of the heat. I do need to learn to take it easy the first day for sure... that's a skill I do not have dialed yet

 

[Dan Plantz]

I wouldn't say I get full on Altitude sickness, more like the lack of oxygen turns me into a complete biotch for a day. I can't keep my heart rate in check, my breathing goes to heck and I start feeling sorry for myself real fast. I normally hunt the steep stuff in Idaho and the first day or two I need so many dang breaks it's almost embarrassing. I don't get light headed or feel like I need to throw up or anything but I just feel weak and tired.

Well that clears it up some. Probably below 10k, mostly. Not altitude sickness, just muscles but being adapted to working without oxygen. I moved to 500' elevation 8 years ago but have maintained full capability up to 10k. I think the reason is that I do actual anaerobic in the gym. I also run a lot, but that has really only been about half of those 8 years, and the first half I was still good to go in the Idaho mountains. By true anaerobic I don't mean keeping your breathing rate down. I mean actually forcing your muscles to work hard when out of oxygen. Superset everything. No breaks; meaning actually no breaks. 3 sets for each lift. Final set to failure less than 10 reps. Second set enough weight to barely get 10. First set 10% less weight than second, going to failure greater than 10 reps. Lean toward more isolative movements. Can still do full ranges of motion, just not full body lifts. Supersets are just two different lifts. Don't want to give either muscle group too much of a break. Poor sweat and huff and puff your way through non stop, isolative lifts, and your muscles will figure out they need to make atp without oxygen. Lift every day. Certainly also do a few hours of cardio per week. It could take a couple months for full benefit adaptation from this routine, but even starting now, you'll probably see some benefit by time your in the mountains

 

[Erussell01]

Well that clears it up some. Probably below 10k, mostly. Not altitude sickness, just muscles but being adapted to working without oxygen. I moved to 500' elevation 8 years ago but have maintained full capability up to 10k. I think the reason is that I do actual anaerobic in the gym. I also run a lot, but that has really only been about half of those 8 years, and the first half I was still good to go in the Idaho mountains. By true anaerobic I don't mean keeping your breathing rate down. I mean actually forcing your muscles to work hard when out of oxygen. Superset everything. No breaks; meaning actually no breaks. 3 sets for each lift. Final set to failure less than 10 reps. Second set enough weight to barely get 10. First set 10% less weight than second, going to failure greater than 10 reps. Lean toward more isolative movements. Can still do full ranges of motion, just not full body lifts. Supersets are just two different lifts. Don't want to give either muscle group too much of a break. Poor sweat and huff and puff your way through non stop, isolative lifts, and your muscles will figure out they need to make atp without oxygen. Lift every day. Certainly also do a few hours of cardio per week. It could take a couple months for full benefit adaptation from this routine, but even starting now, you'll probably see some benefit by time your in the mountains

Sounds like fun to me- I coach crossfit and do sprints every week as a baseline so I'm not a stranger to anaerobic work by any means but maybe I need more. Do you find the smoke to give you more issue than the elevation at all?

 

[Erussell01]

Dry sauna helps with acclimation. Invest in an altitude tent. They work.

Man I would love a sauna!!

 

[mtbraun]

Man I would love a sauna!!

If you had to choose, I'd recommend the sauna over the tent because of its other numerous benefits. Plus, it can be used year-round whereas I doubt you'd want to sleep in an altitude tent every night!

 

[Dan Plantz]

Sounds like fun to me- I coach crossfit and do sprints every week as a baseline so I'm not a stranger to anaerobic work by any means but maybe I need more. Do you find the smoke to give you more issue than the elevation at all?

If smoke gets bad enough, then sure. But if it's just borderline "unhealthy" it doesn't effect my breathing or legs, just gives me a headache. I saw you mentioned CrossFit. I've never gotten into that, so I may be speaking out of turn, but my understanding of that is that it tends to go mid range on weight, in favor of ALL the reps. That may be a little closer to cardio in some respects: training your heart and lungs to be efficient, but still getting enough oxygen to power each rep aerobically. My thought with going heavier weight, while still pushing the pace, is that there's just no way you're going to condition your cardio enough to keep up with the workload of a heavier rep, at a still high pace. Now, this is just what I happened to do when I was young, stopped doing in my late 20s and had zero gas tank, then started back into in my early 30s. I then moved from 3k feet, where I spent most weekends at 7k, to 500 elevation. I expected to lose my altitude fitness, but just didn't. And I wasn't running much; maybe 10-15 miles a week. And there were plenty of periods where I couldn't run for a few weeks to a month dealing with different minor injuries as I figured that game out; yet I still always was good up to about 10k. So, I can only conclude it's from lifting near max, with high pace. But I'm definitely not a doctor

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

Lots of good advice here regarding acclimatization and diamox. I'll just add this. I've spent time on the fringes of distance running and weightlifting, and it's been my experience that weightlifters, gym nerds, crossfitters, and, in general, people who call it "cardio" or "conditioning" just aren't at the same level as the runners. If you can't comfortably run trails for an hour or two, you're leaving performance on the table. I don't mean that to throw any shade, just my experience.

 

[snakesrobinson]

Never heard of diamox....great info as I'll be heading from WI to Colorado. Seems not being properly hydrated plays a big role.

 

[TaperPin]

Never heard of diamox....great info as I'll be heading from WI to Colorado. Seems not being properly hydrated plays a big role.

You‘re right proper hydration and mild heat exhaustion is a common problem out west. The symptoms of feeling sick to your stomach and brain fog can be either, or both. I’ve come across two people over the years that were on a trail feeling like crap. After some small talk to see where they’re from, what they’re doing and how much water they had, these two were just out of water. Sweat evaporates much quicker in climates with low humidity and it can trick someone into thinking they are fine, when their sweating has slowed down.

 

[Erussell01]

.

Lots of good advice here regarding acclimatization and diamox. I'll just add this. I've spent time on the fringes of distance running and weightlifting, and it's been my experience that weightlifters, gym nerds, crossfitters, and, in general, people who call it "cardio" or "conditioning" just aren't at the same level as the runners. If you can't comfortably run trails for an hour or two, you're leaving performance on the table. I don't mean that to throw any shade, just my experience.

I respect that opinion. I used to be very one dimensional with fitness. I was a low level powerlifter, then a mediocre weightlifter, then got into crossfit. I hated running but I realized that it was because my cardio for anything outside of 15 min workout was trash. That's why I run every week pretty much all year after the snow melts. Usually just one, but progressively longer as the season goes on. I also do 30, 45 and 60 min EMOMs which for me are much higher HR than running.

I am actually planning on a half this weekend, just to make sure I can. last year I ran a half just under 2 hours the 3rd week of august before heading to Idaho. I'm gonna shoot for 9:30 average pace so I'll likely be over 2 hours but I'll be happy with that for a trail run. My longest run of the year has only been 10 so far but I've been biking more than normal this year which I've enjoyed

I do at least 2 long cardio sessions a week as a baseline. Usually 1 run and either a row, bike or a long interval workout because I like how it makes me feel.

 

[Erussell01]

You‘re right proper hydration and mild heat exhaustion is a common problem out west. The symptoms of feeling sick to your stomach and brain fog can be either, or both. I’ve come across two people over the years that were on a trail feeling like crap. After some small talk to see where they’re from, what they’re doing and how much water they had, these two were just out of water. Sweat evaporates much quicker in climates with low humidity and it can trick someone into thinking they are fine, when their sweating has slowed down.

How much water do you guys pack? I start the day with 3 liters and I almost always burn through that. I always thought I was just a thirsty dude but maybe I'm actually doing ok for a flatlands up there....

 

[TaperPin]

How much water do you guys pack? I start the day with 3 liters and I almost always burn through that. I always thought I was just a thirsty dude but maybe I'm actually doing ok for a flatlands up there....

4 +/- 1
I tend to pack enough that if something comes up it’s not a big deal to spend the night - did that once and it made a long night very uncomfortable.

 

[Erussell01]

4 +/- 1
I tend to pack enough that if something comes up it’s not a big deal to spend the night - did that once and it made a long night very uncomfortable.

The only bad thing about that is the weight

I'll have to up my water a bit this year and see if it helps. Hopefully I can find good water to filter In this new unit too

 

[Dan Plantz]

Lots of good advice here regarding acclimatization and diamox. I'll just add this. I've spent time on the fringes of distance running and weightlifting, and it's been my experience that weightlifters, gym nerds, crossfitters, and, in general, people who call it "cardio" or "conditioning" just aren't at the same level as the runners. If you can't comfortably run trails for an hour or two, you're leaving performance on the table. I don't mean that to throw any shade, just my experience.

Lots of running definitely helps as well, just in a different way: conditioning the body to most efficiently bring in oxygen. But when there ain't much oxygen, you need your body to also be tuned to create atp anaerobically. The biggest benefit from distance trail running, for me, is mental. When 15 miles and a few thousand feet of gain is just another Wednesday, there's really no practical hike or pack in distance that can phase you.

 

[jcmupar]

Vo2 max training will help. I also like zone 1 training for long durations (preferably with a heavy pack) to simulate the long arduous grind of packing in/ out. As others have said get there early and sleep as high as you can drive and then come down to get some light hiking/ glassing in.