I read about 1/2 the 223 thread posts and what I liked about it was that it confirmed a seasoned shooter, with the right bullet, at the right range CAN make a good clean kill GIVEN the gear (good scope at longer range) and experience exist in the equation. But let's admit that MOST of these guys posting on the 223 post HAVE the gear AND the experience to use it way out there, while younger hunters do not.
Heavy .224 bullets (shot out of a 223) have to have VERY good scopes to work WAY out there. Those 75s (and 77s) are dropping fast at 500 yards where SOME of those guys on the 223 post make kills-- dialing very expensive scopes with very accurate range finders. There is no other way to do it with that caliber at that range. AND... at that range wind is magnified as the bullet is going slower and dropping faster. BUT... if you make the hit, animal indeed dies.
Within 200 yards, any good 223 bullet will drop any deer and with good shot placement- and elk too. But I'd not let a young OR inexperience shooter take a poke at an elk with a 223 too far out. And, I'd not do it myself and here is why: I do NOT KNOW what range the elk (or deer) will be when I come up on it!
If an deer IS at 200 yards, pass me the 223 please
If an elk is at the same range, pass me the 223 with a good bullet and ballistics I KNOW WELL... ok. But elk hunting in the places I hunt can be 60 - 600 yards. My 7mm RM can (and has) made that shot at either of those ranges without dailing (be some hold over going out past 300 yards though). But my bullet isn't at the "end" of its ballistic ability at 600 in the 7mm RM... so I don't need a $1400 scope to dail the "lob" shot.
I also doubt a 223 has what I'd consider "enough" energy to make a "clean" kill if the bullet is off by 4-6" at "elk" ranges I typically shoot (which it often over 300 yards). Elk past that range get "thicker" and I'll take the Partition when any hit in the general boiler or shoulders will be going down (so far for me anyway) and usually exit too.
But even an old dog like me can learn, and the 223 post just proves about any gun in the right hands can kill about anything-- ask the Eskimos who have used the 22 hornet to kill EVERYTHING since rifles existed-- to this day! Thus, I now actually use a 260ai with the Gold Dot (Fusion) 140 for elk and larger "mulies" with an oryx planned in 2024. I have the energy and accuracy out to 600 yards (where my scope stops working) to drop anything in North America. But I'll take the lighter gun and bullet over the old 7MM RM if I'm hauling the rifle all over the place (which I usually do) at 7 1/2 lbs (Vs. close to 10 lbs on the 7MM RM) now that I'm 50-something
So I get the lighter weight, low recoil killing machine that the 223 CAN be-- given you're willing to spend the time and money (scope) to make it work at longer range. I also LOVE the Fusion and Gold Dot bullets (* and I'm very sure they kill well out of 223s at medium range without a doubt on deer, or close in on elk- no argument there).
So if the extended family of hunters have good training, and know the limit of any 223 "set-up" they are using... I'm all about using the caliber at it's "usable and effective" range given the scope investment and experience of the hunters. My 15 yr old nephew was shooting my 223 into 2" at 200 yards when I gave it to him to kill his first pig... would work the same for him on a white tail, no doubt.
One of the BEST lessons any hunter can have is learning to accept their limits and pass on the "maybe" shot and instead wait for (or close the distance on) the RIGHT shot. Yes, anyone can kill an ek with a 22lr (or arrow)... IF they know what they are doing and are willing to work with the limits inherent with that selection of a weapon. But it gets more complicated (for new hunters) adding in the range finder (and dailing costs a lot of money). Less things to think about is the best policy for new hunters.
It IS all about practice for the younger hunter especially. But once they have the confidence, they CAN shoot as good as anyone. But shooting is just ONE element of the hunt... knowing what to do, how to work with wind, where to go when on a stalk, etc. are the part you learn over years (of usually making mistakes). Give them training, spend time at the range, and teach them about the gun and bullet they are going to be using and SET the limits for them based on their ability-- and they will make the kill with a 223 or 300 Win Mag
www.ammoland.com
