Elite Energy Tuning Question. Should I shim?

[Brandon_SPC]

To shim or not shim the cams, if so how much? Should I do only the top cam or both?
Right handed bow (holding bow in left hand to draw), 70lb draw, 30" draw length, 635 grain arrow which is a BE Rampage 250 cut to 28" with about 270 grains on the front. Cams are timed.

Currently I have an Elite E35 that is "tuning" outside of manufacturers specs on centershot. I have a very small shim on the left side and a thick shim on the right side (riser side of the bow) of both top and bottom cams. To get a bareshaft to fly well at 20 yards I have to move my rest to the left then of course when I get out to extended distances I can't tune my broadheads, very unpredictable arrow flight. Now when I set the rest to the manufacturers specs for centershot, (3/4" - 13/16"), I get a constant right tear that is about an inch. My thoughts are to shim the cams to the right but I'm not sure how much or which ones?

Any insight because I have never had to shim cams. The process seems easy but I don't know if there is a basic guideline and I have looked everywhere.

 

[RosinBag]

I would shim it. There are not a ton of options with the Elite bows for fixing this type of issue.

You can by a shim kit from a Lancaster Archery that comes with about a 100 washers. Make sure to measure both washers that are on the bow now and keep that same width with the new ones. If you have an inch tear I would start at moving it right about 20-25 thousandth and I would shim both.

 

[Billy Goat]

Have you played with the rotation of the cable guard?

I wouldn't mess with shimming untill you have tried tuning with the cable guard. If that doesn't work work then yes, get a shim kit and start to bump the top cam over. With the elites I have set centershot at the recommendation and tuned with the cable guard. But I have only tuned 2.

 

[Buffalomtn]

Sounds like you have too much of a tear to clear up with the cable guard. Move the thinnest shim from the right side of the cam to the left side. Do top and bottom. Check with bare shafts and proceed with additional shimming if needed. Good chance you can get by with just moving the shims on your bow, but a shim kit is nice to have so that you can fine tune.

 

[X-file]

I’d put it in a draw board and see if the cams are both leaning or if one is leaning more than another. On archerytalk Dbllungit sells shim kits very reasonably. I’ve also seen a couple of energy 35’s with a little limb twist and a couple where the bottom riser was flexing to the right for a Rh shooter


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[stonewall]

I was able to tune my dads 32 by moving the cable guard. I would try that first. What can it hurt?

I find the Tim gillingham youtube videos helpful

 

[Brandon_SPC]

I moved the cable guard in every position and the tear stayed the exact same. I'm thinking the cams need to be shimmed. I will start by flipping the shims like stated above then go from there. Hopefully this works. Thank y'all.

 

[doverpack12]

Have you messed with your grip or shot elites successfully before? They require a little different grip and I can create a 2” tear just with my grip pressure side to side. Doesn’t take a lot. Generally they take more palm/heel pressure or hand a little further into grip so thumb has more pressure on the right side of riser.

 

[doverpack12]

Have you tried an relatively normal arrow setup in the 400-500 grain range with appropriate spine?

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Have you tried an relatively normal arrow setup in the 400-500 grain range with appropriate spine?

What constitutes a relatively normal arrow set up?

But yes sir I have owned this Elite since 2015 and shot it successful before I sent it off to have new strings put on the bow. I think the cams were shimmed in their tuning process but that was last year but I will experiment with some different grips before shimming cams.

 

[X-file]

So was it shooting bullets with that set up prior to sending it off for new strings?

If they tuned the bow for you when you sent it in, was the arrow you’re currently using the one they tuned it with?

Have you scaled the bow yourself to see if the poundage is where you think it is?

Have you tried a different point weight to see if that changes the tear?

Have you checked for fletching contact or rest timing issue?

Is the measured draw length correct?


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[Brandon_SPC]

So was it shooting bullets with that set up prior to sending it off for new strings?

If they tuned the bow for you when you sent it in, was the arrow you’re currently using the one they tuned it with?

Have you scaled the bow yourself to see if the poundage is where you think it is?

Have you tried a different point weight to see if that changes the tear?

Have you checked for fletching contact or rest timing issue?

Is the measured draw length correct?


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- Yes it was shooting bullet holes before but it was with a grip that isn't natural to me. This might sound weird but the most comfortable grip for me is almost like the same way John Dudley grips his bow. Like the picture below unless y'all know a better grip.
- Yes I have check the draw weight on the bow
- Yes I have experimented with 100 grains to 150 grains (including my 120 grain inserts) and still get the bad right tear.
- Yes sir I have checked fletching contact with powder
- Yes sir it is 30" which is what my normal draw length is.

 

[X-file]

Thanks for the info...

You’ve changed your grip and now won’t get a good tune. If you are truly gripping the bow as in your pic then I would venture to guess as you get back to full draw the front of the bow rotates to the right which in turn will change the tune of the bow. And the arrow at full draw in relation to the riser probably looks like this (\ |) with the tip of the arrow to the left. If that is the case the only options are

Add thumb pressure to the grip (adding any type of pressure to change a natural grip is not recommended)

Move the arrow rest to where it is in front of your wrist (might make a minor correction to the tear)

Shim the cams. I wouldn’t swap the set up of the shims you have now, I’d get a kit with multiple sizes. If you swap the shims you may over correct the problem.

I’ve had multiple elite bows energy 35’s and synergy’s that would have this exact problem. This is also the issue that I saw with my Pse Evolve and perform x 3D. I just wanted to get more info before recommending tearing the bow apart.

I have not had this problem with the victory, impulse or energy 32 series bows.


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[Brandon_SPC]

Thanks for the info...

You’ve changed your grip and now won’t get a good tune. If you are truly gripping the bow as in your pic then I would venture to guess as you get back to full draw the front of the bow rotates to the right which in turn will change the tune of the bow. And the arrow at full draw in relation to the riser probably looks like this (\ |) with the tip of the arrow to the left. If that is the case the only options are

Add thumb pressure to the grip (adding any type of pressure to change a natural grip is not recommended)

Move the arrow rest to where it is in front of your wrist (might make a minor correction to the tear)

Shim the cams. I wouldn’t swap the set up of the shims you have now, I’d get a kit with multiple sizes. If you swap the shims you may over correct the problem.

I’ve had multiple elite bows energy 35’s and synergy’s that would have this exact problem. This is also the issue that I saw with my Pse Evolve and perform x 3D. I just wanted to get more info before recommending tearing the bow apart.

I have not had this problem with the victory, impulse or energy 32 series bows.


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Thanks I have a shim kit on the way. I can get the bow to still shoot bullet holes as in the picture below (just shot). But now I have to move my sight so far left that I am almost out of adjustment. The picture of my sight is roughly where my red dot is but I still have about two feet I need to move to the left at 20 yards.