Efficacy of Head and Neck shots for LR Hunters

[JGood]

There's 30 threads on here about bullet choice and wound rates, match vs hunting bullets, how far is too far etc. but i havent found one asking "Why are hunters not taking more head and neck shots?"

1. the critical hit zone on a head/neck shot is about the same size as "the vitals area" on the same animal.
2. Terminal balistics is almost not a factor.
3. If you have a bad shot, you more than likely missed the animal entirely
4. You can shoot smaller bore/less recoiling rifles with the same end ressult.

I personally always shoot animals behind the shoulder but im thinking about changing that up. Curious to hear some thoughts

 

[finner]

Maybe take up bowling instead

 

[ABK]

I've taken a couple head shots on whitetails under 100yds with great success. I think people that oppose it are concerned with blowing off a bottom jaw and the animal suffering.

 

[Bubblehide]

The critical hit zone is not even close in size.

I very often take heart shots and head shots. But when I do, the animal is within a distance that matches my ability. On longer shots, I am going for the vitals area, to maximize the odds of a kill shot, again, the animal is within my abilities on such distances.

 

[VernAK]

A moose has a small brain and a very large head/nose. How would you know if your shot went through the nose or jaw?

I shot a very large wounded bull moose twice in the neck with a 300 WSM and 180 gr TSX at 80 yards and he grunted both time and stayed on his feet. Neither bullet exited the neck nor was the spine or artery hit. My arms would not reach around the neck of that bull. The neck of a large bull is a mass of muscle.

Stick to lung shots!

 

[hereinaz]

There's 30 threads on here about bullet choice and wound rates, match vs hunting bullets, how far is too far etc. but i havent found one asking "Why are hunters not taking more head and neck shots?"

1. the critical hit zone on a head/neck shot is about the same size as "the vitals area" on the same animal.
2. Terminal balistics is almost not a factor.
3. If you have a bad shot, you more than likely missed the animal entirely
4. You can shoot smaller bore/less recoiling rifles with the same end ressult.

I personally always shoot animals behind the shoulder but im thinking about changing that up. Curious to hear some thoughts

I dispute the premise that the brain/neck is "about the same size as 'the vitals area'". The brain and neck are long and narrow, and even smaller given the skull can cause the bullet to glance if it hits at too sharp an angle.

From the diaphram forward, it is a shot that will kill. That is significantly wider than anything in the CNS. Just a neck shot is not enough, it can hit the esophagus without expanding and miss the spine. The deer will die, but you will never track it and never find it. You can also hit the jaw and never find it. You can do the same with a miss of the vitals that passes through something, but the whole target is larger.

Shooting a smaller caliber also means more wind drift at long range. The vital area of a deer's lungs are wider so it accommodates the wind drift better than the brain. You can miss high on the lungs and still get a spine shot. If you miss low on the lungs you get a heart shot. You can also miss forward and hit the shoulders or neck if it is feeding. The worst is to miss and get the drift into the guts, but a good shooter accounts for that and doesn't take the shot that could lead to it.

 

[hereinaz]

A moose has a small brain and a very large head/nose. How would you know if your shot went through the nose or jaw?

I shot a very large wounded bull moose twice in the neck with a 300 WSM and 180 gr TSX at 80 yards and he grunted both time and stayed on his feet. Neither bullet exited the neck nor was the spine or artery hit. My arms would not reach around the neck of that bull. The neck of a large bull is a mass of muscle.

Stick to lung shots!

Agree, stick to lung shots. Especially when we know the bullets we use will devastate the lungs.

Getting a bullet or part of a bullet to clip the spine or artery in the neck is a low odds proposition compared to putting something into the boiler room.

Not saying that neck shots and lung shots don't work, and guys are using them all the time on deer. If you've got that shot and have a stable enough position to do it, go for it. I just like sticking with the highest probabilities. That's destroying the lungs.

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve seen a few lower jaws just hanging - pretty horrible way to die. If anything will get the public sentiment against hunting faster than videos of hanging jaws, I don’t know what it would be.

Skinning animals at the butcher shop I saw more than a few wind pipe wounds that would have eventually killed the animal, but not for many days, had they not taken the animal down with another shot.

No way no how is a neck or brain shot going to provide a higher percentage of kills over a chest shot.

 

[lintond]

I’ve shot three deer in the head neck. Two of them were close range neck shots & DRT.

The third dropped on the shot and I was high diving my buddy & packing up my gear when he suddenly got up and stood there. A follow up shot put him down. Turns out the first shot hit him in the jaw. I’m ashamed to admit I pulled the shot because I certainly wasn’t aiming for head/neck.

For long range I wouldn’t ever advocate for head/neck shots. Same as with archery where the frontal is reserved for short range.


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[JohnJohnson]

It's not even close to the same area. Only a certain part of the neck will kill an animal when a bullet goes through it. Enough people here have talked about the jaw thing but I can't emphasize enough how bad it is seeing an animal with its jaw shot off from some idiot that wanted to get cute with their shot. And to add on, the head and neck are the body parts that animals move the most which makes for a much more difficult target to hit right.

 

[hereinaz]

It's not even close to the same area. Only a certain part of the neck will kill an animal when a bullet goes through it. Enough people here have talked about the jaw thing but I can't emphasize enough how bad it is seeing an animal with its jaw shot off from some idiot that wanted to get cute with their shot. And to add on, the head and neck are the body parts that animals move the most which makes for a much more difficult target to hit right.

It was enough that head and neck were small targets, so I never even considered that they are constantly on the move... I do worry about the whole body moving and watch intently. One of the things that is always happening is the head feeding, then popping up to alert, then going down to feed. I couldn't predict that well enough to shoot. On the other hand, I can observe and feel comfortable that the deer isn't likely to move its whole body.

That goes for long range or for close range.

 

[Cornhusker]

I had two clients last week that wanted to take that shot on deer for the exact reason you listed. They both shot smaller caliber rifles and kept their shots to 200 yards or less. They were both successful and deer dropped immediately and don't wiggle. I still don't like the shot but I can't argue it's effectiveness if performed correctly. I don't plan on changing from the behind the shoulder shot.

 

[Choupique]

I've done it before a few times as a follow-up to finish an animal off. Wouldn't do it as a first shot unless I absolutely had to. It's a high-risk shot with lots of opportunity to wound the animal. It's small, moves a lot, etc.

Great for squirrels, not great for deer.

 

[GreyBeck]

guys I know who are fanatical about getting all the meat shoot @ head or neck - but when close - inside 100yards typically. I haven't seen them miss yet or a deer take so much as a step. These are smaller FL whitetail tho not an elk.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Is it about ME wanting to save a bit of meat or is it about the consequences for the animal? How about a bullet that doesn't blow up the meat? Elk, deer or any other big game animal, should be valued as a living entity. I'm left with the idea it would matter based on the species whether a person would shoot one animal differently than another.

Shot placement on a shot the hunter has the ability to make through the chest vitals is responsible and ethical with respect to what we are called to do as said hunters.

I can appreciate the OP being a vital chest cavity shot seeker. However, the thoughts/rationale for changing it up could lead a lot of folks down the wrong path.

Truly, I am laughing (sadly) out loud reading "If I have a bad shot and I don't hit them, I'm gonna miss entirely". What about jaws, what about soft tissue neck shots?

"Vital area" size comparison/justification isn't close.

Shooting smaller, less recoiling rifles with the same result? That says a hunter is not comfortable with the broadside vital area shot and the capability of a cartridge and bullet. However, would be willing to cause an animal undue potential suffering.

Possibly the question why there isn't a thread about those kinds of shots has been answered.

 

[gabenzeke]

As others have said, the vitals are vastly larger than the spots you need to hit if you're aiming for head or neck. Given this is the long range forum, I really don't think it's smart to shoot for CNS from any kind of long range. You do you, that's just my opinion.

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[JGood]

Im going to try and address as many of the points made as I can. To be clear, this is more of a question of efficacy vs ethics. All I am concered with, for the purposes of this thought experiment, is killing and recovering animals. Suffering is not a part of the criteria. Lets assume we shoot supressed and the animal is unconcerned with the report of the muzzle blast.

1. If you speak to a lot of folks who do deer control in suburban areas they all shoot for the head/neck so the kill is instantanious. The animal drops right away with no blood trail. No one wants deer blood sprayed all over their nice neighborhood in the gaited communities or on the 18th hole at the country club. Some of these varmit control guys kill HUNDREDS of deer this way. So at the very least, there is a lot of precident to suggest its not an inefficient way to kill. For some reason people have NO issue shooting coyotes, ground hogs, feral pigs, doe deer, and other varmit in the head, why does it matter for a mature male deer? This may be contraversal, but I think the trophy hunter in us looks at those antlers and says to ourselved "what if i accidentaly hit those?"

2. I posted this in Long Range Hunting becasue it is unbelievably common for people to shoot CNS at close range. Im not at all curious as to the efficacy of that. However, at long range, bullets slow down, wind becomes a factor and animals have time to move from when the bullet cracks to till impact.

3. Lower jaw getting shot off. I agree, it looks awfuly grousome, but how is that any worse than being gut shot? either way, the animal dies a slow painful death of starvation. On the flip side, if you hit the CNS, the death is almost instantanious. MANY time ive seen western animals get shot 2+ times. Cant imagine that is a better way to go than having the lights shut out. To those who have seen it happen, how certain are you that the person was aiming for the head and hit the jaw and it wasnt a bad vitals shot? I also couldent care less about what the non-hunting public thinks about seeing a deer with its jaw shot off. They'll think the same about deer and elk skulls in the beds of trucks and thats not stopping any time soon.

4. The kill box size - if someone could provide for measurments for the total square inches of vitals vs the total square inches of neck and brain on a deer that would be super helpful. I may be willing to concede this point. I do think the area of CNS in the neck is MUCH larger than people realize. impacts anywhere near the spine will cause a shut off, damage to any artery will cause the animal to bleed out in seconds. @VernAK puts out some awesome anecdotal evidence. Moose are probably a great exception. Giant snouts, giant meaty necks, giant vitals.
However, it wouldent change the argument that the margin for wounding the animal is much higher on a center mass shot.

5. Great points about heads moving more than bodies. but once again, if the animal moves its body from when you break the shot to impact, on a vitals shot, you are more likely to wound. if the animal moves its head on a head shot, you are more likely to have a clean miss.

6. severed trachea - I have a hard time believing that an animal shot in the trachea would get JUST the trachea damaged and not the CNS. If it did, i would be willing to bet that the trachea would heal up just fine and the animal would live.

7. small caliber - i really dont care to debate this particular topic as it is adressed over and over again in this LRH sub-forum. small caliber rifles are easier to shoot plain and simple. However, the effects of wind drift are an interesting take.

 

[JohnJohnson]

3. Lower jaw getting shot off. I agree, it looks awfuly grousome, but how is that any worse than being gut shot? either way, the animal dies a slow painful death of starvation.

Gutshot animals do not die of starvation, they die of bleeding out just much slower than if you hit the heart/lungs. I'm not sure if you're referring to a different kind of gutshot than I'm familiar with?

 

[justin davis]

My dad always liked to shoot elk in the neck. I watched him kill a bunch. Just smoked them and they would just drop right there. No meat wasted and it seemed to work well. I don’t ever go for the neck.

 

[Marshfly]

guys I know who are fanatical about getting all the meat shoot @ head or neck - but when close - inside 100yards typically. I haven't seen them miss yet or a deer take so much as a step. These are smaller FL whitetail tho not an elk.

Head I can see for the meat loss issue, but there is significantly more meat on the neck than there is that will be damaged with a lung shot. And it’s more compact so more will end up blood shot.

Skipping the neck meat on a whitetail is essentially leaving darn near a fifth quarter behind.


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