Eastern vs Western land ownership?

[BigFaus]

So the answer to this question may seem pretty obvious but my curiosity has peaked and I figured I would just go ahead and ask anyway. For starters I was born and raised in Pennsylvania and the only hunting experience I have is whitetail and turkey on small patches of property that are mainly family farms or raw land that we have access to or permission to hunt. With that being said if I continue to live on the east coast as I get older (Mid 20's currently), the goal for me, as it is most of the hunters I know, is to buy a little patch of property that we can hunt and enjoy to our heart's content. For most that can be a mix of tillable land and hardwoods. For others it's 10 acres behind the house, just enough room for a little clover plot and 2 tree stands. As time goes on and life evolves and my professional career continues to progress this seems like a pretty attainable goal. So here in PA you can start to control/manage your whitetail herd with 100 acres or so. Small family farms always seem to be a rather desirable piece of property for the avid whitetail hunter.

My question is, in the western states, what is the equivalent? Is it an attainable and practical goal for home and land ownership to manage a species of game? If you owned a small parcel of land in one of those western states would that be enough for an outdoorsman to enjoy? Or is public land typically the best option for the average Joe? I realize that most parcels of land in those states typically tend to be much larger I just don't know how different of an experience it really is. Appreciate any feedback this gets. I'm aware that if the means were there a larger ranch is naturally the better choice but is it realistic for the average person? Thanks!

 

[bsnedeker]

Typically what most guys out here are looking for is a chunk of private land that borders public land that is otherwise difficult or impossible to access. Elk and deer migrate out here much more than WT's do in the east so the idea of managing a herd is not really common out here...you would need thousands of acres to even think about it. The Wilks brothers do this with elk on the N-Bar and I'm aware of a few other folks who bought ranches specifically to target game animals but not very many. Most folks are working their land in some way.

 

[BigFaus]

Typically what most guys out here are looking for is a chunk of private land that borders public land that is otherwise difficult or impossible to access. Elk and deer migrate out here much more than WT's do in the east so the idea of managing a herd is not really common out here...you would need thousands of acres to even think about it. The Wilks brothers do this with elk on the N-Bar and I'm aware of a few other folks who bought ranches specifically to target game animals but not very many. Most folks are working their land in some way.

Thanks. So the reality of it is that most people just aren't buying recreational land specifically to hunt? That's kind of what I figured. Appreciate you chiming in!

 

[timberlinehunter]

This is a really good topic. As a mid western guy myself, I have often dreamt/thought about purchasing some land and a cabin out west and often wondered what would be the ideal size acreage. I'm not a city person in the least so I would be looking for country living. What size parcels does the average western guy look for when considering purchasing land out west if they aren't a rancher/farmer?

 

[WCB]

On 20ish acres nobody is managing anything wildlife wise. However, you can have some good hunting. with anything it is all about location location location. My uncle used to live on 5 acres outside Bozeman MT. shot a bunch of deer and a couple Black Bears on it. Animals traveled up and down the creek.

I also looked at moving out there for awhile before it turned into a crap hole. You could find reasonably priced lots 50-100acres for way cheaper than you could by in the east. Mule deer, elk, some birds etc. lived in those areas year round.

So the answer to your question is equivalent could be equal to less than or more than what you are looking at out east.

 

[bozeman]

I live in AL on 10 acres and hunt on a neighbor's property of 100 acres......I look at it as a 4/5-1 ratio........if I need 10 acres in AL, I would need 40 or 50 acres out west to live on and 400/500 acres to hunt on....no statistics behind it, just from travels and hunts/hikes out west in CO, NM and WY.........

 

[5MilesBack]

On most parcels out West I would say that they would be opportunity tags.......meaning, if you're there and something happens to wander through, it's in season, and you have a tag.......then great. But I wouldn't expect to really "hunt" them. For elk, I would need at least a couple thousand acres AND "in the right spot" to even begin thinking about being able to hunt it every year.

 

[Billy Goat]

You just need to own enough to qualify for landowner tags, in a few units.


Really the western game is pretty well a completely different game than in the east. Elk and mule deer migrate, you could own low ground and have resident animals, but for the most part you are getting into the 10's k to do much management.

 

[Danomite]

This past Friday I closed on 160 acres 45 minutes from my house in NM. I haven’t put any game cameras up or even explored the whole area, but my goal for the place is just to camp, cut firewood, ride dirt bikes, predator hunt, etc. Basically screw around. I’m sure there are deer, black bears, and maybe a wandering elk once in a while, and I may try to hunt it in years I don’t draw tags, but I don’t view it as anywhere near big enough to be a reliable place to kill animals with the possible exception of deer.

 

[NEWAoutdoors]

For me the biggest deal breaker when we were looking was if the land bordered public land. So instead of just our 20 something acres we have thousands out our back door. Our last house was landlocked all around by private. Not for me.

 

[Diesel]

I have covered this whole country for work and for hunting and hiking and at one time thought I wanted to move out west. I looked hard and came to the conclusion that much of available, affordable land had issues with water and rights. Hunting seasons were short compared to the east and some states tags were draw even for residents.

I love the west's big expanse, terrain, vibe and even the politics back then. But I realized that it would be public land hunting even If I had a couple hundred acres and again water rights was a big issue for me. Then there was the tough winters of the high country which is where I wanted to be. So I turned back to Pennsylvania where I am from and found a new love for the country I had taken for granted.

I spent years looking for the right spot and ended up buying 100 acres surrounded by national forest. Deer were scrubby but all the eastern critters were here. So I spent time and money developing orchards and food plots. The deer got bigger and so did the racks. There is also the long seasons for deer, bear and turkey as a positive benefit. Water was all over the property and so was natural gas as a bonus.

But now I have the problem of hunters sitting the whole perimeter of my land waiting for the deer to cross the line because the hunting is better here now due to my efforts. 100 acres is not anywhere near enough land to control deer herd improvement. You can help but not control.

Hopefully that should give you some perspective.

 

[Michael54]

We talk about land in pa in acres. Hunting areas where i hunt out west are talked about in square miles... also we live on a 300 acre farm surrounded by other large farms and gamelands. Managing the deer herd is practically impossible. Food plots don't make a big difference when everyone around has 50 acre corn or beanfields planted. The deer go where they wanna eat that day.

 

[Billy Goat]

I have felt like it takes a minimum of 500 acres in the east to really manage, that's with good broken cover, fields, and some larger woodlot areas. Straight timber ground I think you are talking more like 2500 acres. Neither of those are near enough to really hold everything, but it's a start. I have had deer killed several miles away, but make the right conditions and they aren't as likely to leave, unless they are a buck that can be a dominant buck elsewhere.

 

[BigFaus]

I have covered this whole country for work and for hunting and hiking and at one time thought I wanted to move out west. I looked hard and came to the conclusion that much of available, affordable land had issues with water and rights. Hunting seasons were short compared to the east and some states tags were draw even for residents.

I love the west's big expanse, terrain, vibe and even the politics back then. But I realized that it would be public land hunting even If I had a couple hundred acres and again water rights was a big issue for me. Then there was the tough winters of the high country which is where I wanted to be. So I turned back to Pennsylvania where I am from and found a new love for the country I had taken for granted.

I spent years looking for the right spot and ended up buying 100 acres surrounded by national forest. Deer were scrubby but all the eastern critters were here. So I spent time and money developing orchards and food plots. The deer got bigger and so did the racks. There is also the long seasons for deer, bear and turkey as a positive benefit. Water was all over the property and so was natural gas as a bonus.

But now I have the problem of hunters sitting the whole perimeter of my land waiting for the deer to cross the line because the hunting is better here now due to my efforts. 100 acres is not anywhere near enough land to control deer herd improvement. You can help but not control.

Hopefully that should give you some perspective.

Appreciate the insight. If you dont mind me asking did you build on your land or is it strictly recreational? Thats another dilemma I've been running into. Do I want to build on my hunting property or buy a separate property to hunt that isn't my main residence? Think about this constantly. Thanks.

 

[30338]

I used to hunt a piece of public ground near Trinidad, CO. It was pretty small actually, maybe 400 or so acres but always held elk and a few bears. Not sure what that is going for these days. But a guy could probably buy a spot like that and not spend more than $600,000.

I decided to buy ground in KS and will close on 80 acres of timbered bottom ground in January. Pretty excited about it. Deer will come and go but hoping the river proves to be a good traveling route. If it proves to be good hunting after my improvements I'll put a small cabin on it.

 

[204guy]

Unless you're spending a couple million, buying hunting land in the west isn't practical.

 

[EastHumboldt]

In the arid intermountain west...40 acres with water rights adjacent to a mountain range with good numbers of deer and elk. Plant alfalfa. Get depredation tags to protect your alfalfa. if you plant it they will come. Since I gave you this great tip you have to invite me.

the ranch that I cross every year to reach the wilderness area leases hunting rights to about ten hunters. It’s about 10,000 acres I think?

 

[Diesel]

Big Faus,
I searched for years for a cabin away from others and looked at probably a hundred. Happened upon this place on the way to look at another. Pure luck or maybe destiny.

Anyhow there was this little old (160 years old at least) cabin sitting down in a valley with no road to it. It was situated there to take advantage of gravity flow water from a spring on the hill. No electric but there were natural gas wells that ran lights, heat and a old frig. The cabin was a mile back from the nearest road. It sat on 103 acres.

I could not afford that kind of acreage even though I thought the price was fair for what I saw as having great potential. It was February and the snow was deep and the wife and I stood there looking at that cabin down in the valley and you could not hear a sound. Nothing. We were hooked right then.

Long story as short as I can tell it is it belonged to a guy in his 80's that had been in the family for at least 160 years. He was selling it to give all the kids an inheritance. I sold everything we had along with some risky financing to buy the place. As soon as we bought it we both lost our jobs with the auto industry collapse. So we lived in that old shack for years while we recovered. The shack was so drafty that the old curtains moved when the wind blew.

Gradually I cleared a couple of sections and planted apple , pear, cherry and other trees to feed the deer, bear. turkeys and us. Put in a big garden, added all the berry bushes and put in clover and food plots. Cut in the road and patched the leaning cabin to make it comfortable. All the while working at a new job all over the country.

I had always intended to build a new house but cash was short and I was getting to the age that if I didn't do it soon I would be too old. Built a kennel and the wife began breeding Golden Retrievers. Then I built a barn to store equipment and tools and then started the house just in front of the old cabin. That was to take advantage of the gravity fed water from the spring. We have been off grid for thirty years now. Added Satellite for computer and phone.

We hunt the land and the wife has shot many good bucks here and so have I. So yes, we live where we hunt and we keep a close eye on it all. If you live elsewhere, people will treat your land as public land with little respect. Work opportunities can be scarce where you find your affordable dream land so that may be a big decider depending on your line of work.

BTW, I am still building the house myself and that is a story in itself. It is quite the project and I hope to finish it before I expire.

Good luck in your search. Dream big and work hard.

 

[RS_Non-Res]

If you want to "manage wildlife" where I hunt/live, you need measure in sections. Here's one...

50,000 total acres/25,500 deeded.
Forest, meadows, water,
Elk, antelope, muleys, trout.
5-hours Phoenix.
$21M.

Easy Peasy, eh?

I subscribed to one of the large ranch realtors news letters and got a phone call within 10 minutes.

 

[Billinsd]

Unless you're spending a couple million, buying hunting land in the west isn't practical.

In 5 years I plan to have that kind of assets in my retirement. And I've often dreamed of owning a lot of land and am envious of those that do. However, I could do A LOT of hunting, and buy a lot of toys with 2 million. Plus, I think it would be an iffy investment. Hell, I just want to buy a big truck and get a trailer and just wander around like.