Early November in Colorado gear!

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

K

I'm going to laugh one of these years when we get a hunting season more like the ones in the 80's. All those guys sporting their logo'd camo base layers and lightweight jackets will be in for a rude awakening.

Ya, you can experience those 20 and 50 degree temps in Nov (seems more common these days anyway), but don't forget about the possibility of those -25 temps too. And I would say that we were pushing snow with our bumpers coming out more years than not. There were days when I was hunting with a full heavy parka, pac boots, and wearing ski goggles. Good times........back then. But these days I sure don't miss them hunting 70 degree temps in September.

Make sure you've got heavy chains for all 4 wheels.

2014 2nd week nov was 70deg sat and -23deg a couple days later near steamboat, made me rethink the extra layers in my duffle that is for damn sure.

 

[COlineman78]

Not sure how or when "Athletic Cut" started to mean "Slim Cut".

One of my biggest complaints. A common problem for me is getting pants big enough for my legs, but you would expect athletic cut would be made or someone with more muscular legs. Shirts I've had from other manufacturers called 'athletic cut' means bigger shoulders with more narrow torso, but not so much with Kuiu. Reminds me of a thread from the other day about some insoles that claimed to be used by pro athletes, but only went up to size 12.

So, all I have is a rifle (.300 Weatherby) and a backpack (Exo)

Top:
-FL merino wool Llano long sleeve
-FL merino wool Chama long sleeve
-Kuiu Guide jacket
*With an extra merino wool Llano in my pack & a balaclava/neck gaiter
*We also have to wear an orange vest and beanie/hat in Colorado

Bottom
-FL Allegheny merino wool pants
-wool socks with uninsulated boots (my buddies told me to stay away from insulated boots)
-Kuiu Guide pants
*Gaiters and some type of cheap snow bib/pants/suit more so form dryness rather than warmth, but it will shield some in.

I also have a .300 Wby and it's a hell of a weapon (mine's a Lazermark). The price of ammo/brass is the only drawback.

I think your list is a good starting point, however here are a few comments/critiques... I personally didn't like the cut of the Chama (I had the QZ) and sold it in favor of the Halstead. If you aren't tall then you won't share a lot of the reasons I didn't like the Chama.

A guide jacket being your heaviest layer won't allow you to sit very long if the temps drop, but you'll be fine if you keep moving.

I felt like the FL Neck Gaiter stretched out faster than it should have around the nose, so I wouldn't recommend it. This is a problem for me because I wear glasses and if it stretches out at the nose it redirects your breath up and fogs up.

You may want to grab some red deserts for a warm day so you aren't stuck wearing long mernios all day. However, since you are day hunting you'd be fine with your everyday undies not having to worry about funk.

I agree with the un-insulated boot suggestion. Double up on socks if you need it. Wool socks can get expensive so keep your eyes out. You can find some descent deals on Darn Tough at Sierra Trading Post or Massdrop.

Another similar pant that I have and like are Sitka Mountain Pants. The Kuiu Chinooks are lighter and will make you more comfortable if the temp is up and you might think about them for that reason. They seem to cover a little wider temp range, but won't be quite as warm.

Hit up either Grant@1shotgear or Steve or Rob at S&S and one of them should be able to help you out on prices a little on FL gear. Grant is a great resource to bounce ideas off of for clothing systems, so you might give him a call. They also sell a lot of Sitka and there are some good options there as well, but the tops are cut way short, so don't work at all for me.

Oh, and for orange check out a fellow Rokslide member's products: http://www.orangeaglow.com/collections/all-products

 

[Pac8541]

Oh, and for orange check out a fellow Rokslide member's products: http://www.orangeaglow.com/collections/all-products

Awesome. Just ordered a panel, thanks for posting that!

...back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[warrior80]

I wouldn't rule out insulated boots. I wear them all the time in November. Especially after having my toes go numb for 4+ months from a day that turned out to be really cold. I was wearing un-insulated all leather goretex Asolo tps 520s with a couple pairs of wool socks on.

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[5MilesBack]

The thing with rifle season is that none of your clothes have to be "hunting" clothes. If you're coming back to a hotel room every night you could easily wear poly base layers (cheaper than merino) and change them out every night. Merino is great for extended days without changing.

Fleece is your friend. It's cheap, it's light, it dries very quickly, it's warm, and there are many different weights to choose from. I have not had good results from layering wool on top of wool. I still freeze, it's heavier than fleece, and it's restrictive on movement.

For November rifle I wore poly base layers (merino wasn't around back then), surplus store wool pants, microfleece over my poly top, heavier fleece over than, and if I was stationary for any period of time........a heavy down jacket. If it really got bad, I'd have the heavy parka in camp. Also had a balaclava in my pack and a wool orange knit hat, and Gates Goretex gloves with heavy Thinsulate insulation.

And I always had insulated boots, and normally wore my Sorel Pac boots by November because there was always at least a foot of snow on the ground. And I carried a couple road flares in my pack to start a fire mid morning to warm up with.

 

[rayporter]

i am glad you said that!/\ /\

 

[Back Country Hunter 2]

They did give me recommendations. That's how I got the idea of my gear that I listed above. Not quite sure exactly what they are wearing, but I am sure it is along the lines of what they recommended me...layers and light clothes and that they get hot, even in the cold from all the hiking and moving.

Top:
-FL merino wool Llano long sleeve
-FL merino wool Chama long sleeve
-Kuiu Guide jacket
*With an extra merino wool Llano in my pack & a balaclava/neck gaiter
*We also have to wear an orange vest and beanie/hat in Colorado

Bottom
-FL Allegheny merino wool pants
-wool socks with uninsulated boots (my buddies told me to stay away from insulated boots)
-Kuiu Guide pants
*Gaiters and some type of cheap snow bib/pants/suit more so form dryness rather than warmth, but it will shield some in.

***And again, it doesn't have to be FIRST LITE and/or KUIU. I am just trying to give people an idea of my layering system regardless of company name.

There are zero FL dealers around me unfortunately. I am near Kuiu headquarters though. Other than that, all I have is a Bass Pro. It is not really that I need to try on clothes. I just need to get an idea on a system of clothing and other people's experiences with certain products and if it would cause me to be underdressed or overdressed. Going and trying on clothes won't really tell me that, because I'd be in the store wearing FL/Kuiu gear where it is 65-70 degrees, I wouldn't be out in the elements in a November Colorado day. So as for fitting and sizing, I have not gotten that far the process. I first need to find the right products before worrying about fit. Now, if I have had experience in Colorado in November and had a pretty good Idea about the conditions, then ya, me going in and trying on a jacket will give me a good idea if it will work out in those conditions. But, I just don't have that understanding/experience yet. That is why i am relying on other's input. Both on here and with by buddies.

I now live in Northern Colorado and have hunted in that part of the state the past 5 years. As far as the layering system you have mentioned above I think you have a good start! My recommendations is to add a couple of things. First when you are glassing or sitting at the time of year you are going, your upper body will get cold. Even with a FL merino and a guide jacket. You need a insulation layer for glassing or long sits (one of the best investments I've ever made). You will feel much more comfortable. A wind resistant glove isn't too bad either!

The second thing I would suggest is getting another outer layer not as heavy duty as the guide jacket. Don't get me wrong the guide jacket is great in certain situations, but hiking up mountains in Colorado it gets me overheated quickly: even with the pit zips. I like to hike with the Guide Vest over the top of a merino layer. I don't over heat as much and still have a wind resistant layer on. Plus you will also have a blaze orange vest on. They have approved pink now too. If that's your thing.

The last thing that I would mention is I think the Guide Pants will be too warm for you during this hunt. They would be perfect for the mornings, but after the sun comes up for a few hours and you are hiking you will be overheating. I think another pant, like the attacks/alpines or similar, with a merino base layer underneath is a better way to go. Once the sun comes up and you start hiking you can take the merino layer off and then you will be much more comfortable. If you have any questions feel free to send me a PM. Good luck!

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Main trouble I've had in this really cold stuff is my feet, I can add a down layer to roast up my upper body, add layers to my legs. Winter gloves that I can still work a rifle in handle the temps well normally and tucking my hands into my jacket at times takes care of the rest if they are getting chilled. But my feet struggle, I'm wearing lowa cervedale gtx. I haven't pursued separate insulated foot wear yet, if I knew I would mainly be sitting (like ice fishing or such sure but I hike a lot normally and I'm concerned my feet will get too warm then and also sweaty). One thought in my head for this year if we pull the Dec tags we put in for is to make some insulated overbooties to slip over my boots when glassing which is when the cold hammers on my toes. Walking around is fine thus why I'm not immediately jumping to insulated boots.

 

[Aventus]

Thanks for all the responses and help everybody. Definitely a better turnout than I expected. Hopefully we can keep this going. Always open to suggestions and hearing about other people's perspectives, product experiences and recommendations. I am brand new to hunting. Unfortunately, I am rookie and 30, but hey, you have to start somewhere, right?

The crew I am going with are all great guys, and a couple of them are very experienced. So, I am definitely looking up to them for the hunt and staying humble. I am the apprentice on this trip. We all have different body types and body reactions to certain temps. So, even though they have offered me clothing recommendations, I'd still love to hear other people's perspectives. As much as I can, really.

Just when I thought I had things figured out on the clothing system, I come in here and you guys change my mind Thanks! Haha. Definitely going to be changing some things. Going to re-read everyone's responses and take some notes. Definitely will probably swap out the Kuiu guide pants for attack pants. As for the merino wool...it doesn't HAVE to be First Lite. If I can get an off brand that has a reputation of good quality for half the price, I wouldn't hesitate.

5MilesBack, I will definitely look into the Fleece and poly base layers you are talking about.

COLineman78, Thanks for the blaze orange product recommendation. I will use them to order my vest. Looks like a great product. One question, the product says that a Youth Large measures at just over 575 square inches. So, I am sure as you go up in size, the square inches increase. So, lets say an adult M or L is about 600 square inches. Fair estimate? Now, I will be weathering a back pack. So, that will probably cut out half of that. So, I will now only have about 300 square inches on my front. How many square inches would a blaze orange beanie cover? Would I be better off with going with the blaze orange backpack panel?

Like I said, all I have is a Rifle (.300 Weatherby) and a Backpack (2016 EXO Mountain Gear 3500). So, just as confused and indecisive I am with the clothing system, as you can see, I am shooting in the dark with Boots as well. Leaning towards Llowa Tibet GTX, Llowa Cevedale, Zamberlan 960, etc. Those are probably my top 3.

 

[Aventus]

Main trouble I've had in this really cold stuff is my feet, I can add a down layer to roast up my upper body, add layers to my legs. Winter gloves that I can still work a rifle in handle the temps well normally and tucking my hands into my jacket at times takes care of the rest if they are getting chilled. But my feet struggle, I'm wearing lowa cervedale gtx. I haven't pursued separate insulated foot wear yet, if I knew I would mainly be sitting (like ice fishing or such sure but I hike a lot normally and I'm concerned my feet will get too warm then and also sweaty). One thought in my head for this year if we pull the Dec tags we put in for is to make some insulated overbooties to slip over my boots when glassing which is when the cold hammers on my toes. Walking around is fine thus why I'm not immediately jumping to insulated boots.

How are you liking the Llowa Cevedale gtx? They are a boot I am considering.

 

[fngTony]

For being orange legal go to a fabric store and buy a cheap piece of orange that can be tied or pinned to your pack. For your orange vest look for one designed for multiple types of hunting. Mine is laid out to hold shot shells, rifle ammo, and has a zippered pocket on the back. I don't do upland bird hunting but that pocket is nice for a few medium sized items. (Kill kit would fit nice

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[COlineman78]

One thought in my head for this year if we pull the Dec tags we put in for is to make some insulated overbooties to slip over my boots when glassing which is when the cold hammers on my toes. Walking around is fine thus why I'm not immediately jumping to insulated boots.

Feathered friends and some others make down booties that would be light enough to keep in your pack and put on when glassing, but I don't think they'd fit over your boots. One thing that Aron Snyder said he does is hop in his sleeping bag when they stop to glass. I think I've seen one product that acts as you describe in slipping over your boots, but I don't remember who makes it.

COLineman78, Thanks for the blaze orange product recommendation. I will use them to order my vest. Looks like a great product. One question, the product says that a Youth Large measures at just over 575 square inches. So, I am sure as you go up in size, the square inches increase. So, lets say an adult M or L is about 600 square inches. Fair estimate? Now, I will be weathering a back pack. So, that will probably cut out half of that. So, I will now only have about 300 square inches on my front. How many square inches would a blaze orange beanie cover? Would I be better off with going with the blaze orange backpack panel?

Like I said, all I have is a Rifle (.300 Weatherby) and a Backpack (2016 EXO Mountain Gear 3500). So, just as confused and indecisive I am with the clothing system, as you can see, I am shooting in the dark with Boots as well. Leaning towards Llowa Tibet GTX, Llowa Cevedale, Zamberlan 960, etc. Those are probably my top 3.

So we had this argument on here last year. The regs state that the orange must be an "outer garment" and doesn't state that it all must be visible. It was confirmed with several emails and conversations with the DoW that a backpack does not have to have orange on it to be legal. However, if hunting public land I would certainly throw an orange panel on my pack; too many idiots out there. I was noticing during last year's muzzy season that between my pack and bino harness only like 100 cuin of my orange vest is probably visible and none from the back. This doesn't bother me all that much in muzzy because everyone is on the lookout for archery folks in all camo anyways. The hat requirement is vague; it only says that some of your orange must be on your head and visible from all directions. So long story short, as long as your vest is 500 cuin from the factory and you don't cut it there is nothing to worry about.

As far as boots, I would worry more about what fits you than what brand or model. Go somewhere where you can try as many as possible. I can't find ANY to fit my wide feet, so I'm about to give up and drop the money on some custom ones.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

How are you liking the Llowa Cevedale gtx? They are a boot I am considering.

Decent boot for my foot. The factory insole was causing the balls of my feet to get sore after long miles, I tossed some thin extra insoles from some running shoes in them prior to last season to see if that improved things and it did confirming my feet needed a bit more cushion on the ball. I swapped in some superfeet orange in them but have only did a bit of hiking since (feels nice), I need to pound some serious miles to form a consensus. Slightly stiff structurally but in turn they provide support on rougher stuff.

I coated the heck out of them with nixwax wax (the paste version) after the massive mudfest during O2 last year, not really to worried if they don't "breath" anymore I want the water to bead off more versus soaking the leather which is what was happening after that much steady moisture.

 

[Pac8541]

On the subject of boots, don't rule out Scarpa. I've been a fanboy of theirs for years and own footwear of theirs ranging from dedicated rock climbing shoes to trail runners to high grade hiking. Best boots/shoes I've ever worn. Totally agree with COLineman78 in that the fit is way more important than the brand but for me, this brand does it all. If I could get away with wearing them at work, I would and I spend a lot of time on my feet wearing heavy shit all day long. Superfeet insoles make them even better. The brands you mentioned are all very, very good so try them all on and wear them a bit in the store then pick the ones that FIT best, regardless of label. Stiff boots and vibram soles are good and will protect your feet and ankles especially when carrying a load.

 

[Aventus]

On the subject of boots, don't rule out Scarpa. I've been a fanboy of theirs for years and own footwear of theirs ranging from dedicated rock climbing shoes to trail runners to high grade hiking. Best boots/shoes I've ever worn. Totally agree with COLineman78 in that the fit is way more important than the brand but for me, this brand does it all. If I could get away with wearing them at work, I would and I spend a lot of time on my feet wearing heavy shit all day long. Superfeet insoles make them even better. The brands you mentioned are all very, very good so try them all on and wear them a bit in the store then pick the ones that FIT best, regardless of label. Stiff boots and vibram soles are good and will protect your feet and ankles especially when carrying a load.

Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't live anywhere close to a store where I can try boots on. At least not Llowa, Scarpa, Zamberlan, etc. The nearest Cabelas is about 3 hours away. I have a Bass Pro in town but I don't think they carry those brands. I have an REI in town too. They do carry Llowa, I think Scarpa but they only carry their light trail hiking shoes and not your heavy duty hunting/backpacking shoes. So, I've tried on those Llowas and Zamberlans and both feel great, but I am sure their heavy duty hunting and backpacking boots will feel different and not have the same mold as their trail workout shoes. So, that leaves me to narrowing down my choice to 2-3 boots, Ordering my #1 and seeing how they fit and perform, and hope that I struck gold. And if not, send them back and order #2 and go through the same steps.

 

[warrior80]

I have Lowa Tibet GTXs. I really like them, but still trying to find an insole I really like. Superfeet orange are ok, better than the stock ones, but not perfect for me. In November I wore the Meindl Perfect Hunters more. They have 400 grams of insulation. I picked up some Zamberlan Vioz 1012s to try out this year. I really like the fit of them. They have a wider last than the other Zamberlan's like the 960s, etc. Which I felt were too narrow for me. You should definitely get some gaiters, the Kuiu ones are great.
For clothing, the Kuiu Peloton is awesome. Maybe look at the Chinook pants too. I have them and the Alpines. I really like them both, but prefer the Chinook in the cooler temps. They also won't be too hot if it warms up like the Guide pants can be. For up top I like the Kenai with the Guide jacket or rain shell. The pit zips allow you to wear them while active without really overheating. As another poster said, when hiking, even in really cold temps, I prefer a thin base layer or two with just the Guide vest.

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[mcseal2]

For boots I have un-insulated Kennetrek Mountain Extreme's and 200gr insulated Cabelas Alaskan Hunter boots by Meindl. Both need an extended break-in time but are really comfortable now. I used to use Danner Pronghorn boots on earlier mountain hunts but found my ankles didn't do well in them with the miles of side-hills I travel in the mountains. On the ranch I'm always wearing slip-on cowboy boots for work with no ankle support. I have very weak ankles from all the years of doing that, they don't get injured easily but will roll over pretty readily if that makes sense. I need a stiffer boot with plenty of ankle support especially when packing out meat.

Gaiters are important too as others have mentioned. I use the Kennetrek gaiters.

For orange I just used a real light mesh vest for years. Last fall I picked up a Kryptek Vesuvius orange vest I like better. It is reversible in a blaze camo pattern and solid blaze. I think Colorado requires solid blaze but am not 100% sure, I'm sure others here can tell you. It fits very well and has some decent usable pockets, I like it. The blaze camo fits the requirements around home and the solid blaze makes it work everywhere. I really wish one of the good hunting clothing makers would bring out a camo jacket with an orange hood. I'd love to have something like the Kuiu Guide or Sitka Jetstream with an orange hood so if I get cold and cover my orange cap with the hood I'm still legal.

 

[COlineman78]

So, that leaves me to narrowing down my choice to 2-3 boots, Ordering my #1 and seeing how they fit and perform, and hope that I struck gold. And if not, send them back and order #2 and go through the same steps.

Shoebuy has 25% till 11am EST and free exchanges and returns, so you could order your top couple choices at a discount and keep the one that fits you. Zappos and Amazon (most of the time) also have free returns and exchanges on shoes.

 

[fngTony]

To the OP. For pants I looked at the Fl corrugate guide in person and they are a fuller cut than any kuiu. If you are average size or muscular I would go with them. They stretch very well and look bomb proof. Definitely need something under them when chilly but per a gentleman at the shop who has them they breath better than any kuiu (except the tiburon, way too light for nov). My only concern with them is they seemed too swishy for archery.
For bottoms the zip off feature that kuiu has is great however if you read on hear they are sized small and the 210 weight doesn't stretch well. They FL algany again are cut normal.




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