Does the 6.5 PRC have enough ass?

[Jjustus16]

Thanks everyone. Tons of good information here. I really appreciate it.

 

[cmahoney]

Do you have a YouTube channel yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rockymtnsam]

I am by no means an expert here (FNG as well ) but I have been hunting elk for the last 7 years. Someone in our camp has killed an elk every year in the last 7 years, sometimes multiple. I think only one of them was over 500, I believe it was ~563. Both of my CO mule deer in the last 2 years were within 100 yards. I know there are great long range shooters and hunters on this platform, but personally I wouldn’t be comfortable shooting beyond 500, depending on weather conditions, because I haven’t spent enough time practicing.

I’ve been shooting 7 RM and planning on picking up a 6.5 PRC and I’m more than confident that’ll get the job done within 500 yards.

 

[Formidilosus]

Although OP subsequently clarified his comment, it triggered a question I have had for a long time - how many long range “hunters” judge a hit or a miss solely by whether or not the animal shows some obvious sign of a hit rather than checking for blood?

Almost all of them. The amount of ammo, shooting time, shooting time and round counts in novel terrain, shooting time and round counts in novel terrain and from field positions with a time or stress component; shooting the volume of animals required with spotting your own hits or someone’s else’s to gain enough experience to gauge shot location based on the animals reaction, and to do so for each type of animal (because a WT deer reacts differently to most hits than a mule deer, than does an elk, antelope, etc.) to competently understand what happens when you shoot at an animal…. I would not be shocked if there were less than a fifty people in the country that are doing all that by themselves. Almost everyone I know that actually is consistently killing animals at 700+ yards are doing so with a partner that knows how to spot.

From the sounds of it, I should probably be looking at 300 or under, WITH a lot of practice. Hopefully that takes care of some that issue.

Much better and more realistic view of it.

You asked for responses with experience. My experience is- I shoot around 8,000 rounds a year in the mountains past 400 yards in the worst conditions possible, and another 10k plus at closer ranges. I kill or am the spotter for 20-40 big game animals a year on average- as an example this past season we killed 20 elk from 80 yards to 803 yards. Some of the people on here that I know have killed a hundred plus game animals at long range and match all the other things I listed above- I personally see a dozen or more new hunters/shooters to me each year, some or most of them I hunt with, some or most of them shoot 5,000-10,000 centerfire rifle rounds a year in practice and competition at long range; and yet by themselves they learn that in the mountains they are 500-600 yard killers at best.
That’s with people that are shooting 5-10 thousand rounds a year in focused practice between 600-1,500 yards- sometimes farther, but because they can not shoot in novel mountain terrain constantly, their ability to call wind well enough to have a high confidence factor (80’ish %) in mountain conditions is such that they are really solid to about 600y. In flat, perfect conditions they are legit 900+ yard killers. But those conditions aren’t reality.

Are there resources on here about judging wind, or is that something I’m just going to have to develop through first hand experience?
Clearly, terrain features will affect wind differently and therefore, will be pretty specific to the area I hunt.

Search “wind brackets” on here, there has been quite a bit of talk about. Once you understand how they work and how to apply them, then the only way to use them effectively is to shoot in the wind with focused practice. And unfortunately, Indiana doesn’t offer terrain that really helps. You will have to cut your range in the mountains down dramatically- like to about 300-400 yards, almsot regardless of how much you practice at 700 yards at home.

At one of the ranges I go to, I know a lot of the older guys (those are the ones who I like to sit with and pick their brains about shooting) will actually hold for wind. Clearly that’s not going to be an option all the time when hunting.

You just hold for wind. Holding or dialing (don’t dial) is the only way to account for wind drift.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Jjustus16

Read the blow threads in their entirety- especially the 223 one as it gives a lot of information about factual, measurable terminal ballistics; then read this- https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...ice-posts-and-rifle-practice-shooting.165291/

That drill has shown with our hunting to have the most direct correlation to shooting and hitting in the field on animals in the west, spot and stalk than anything else. It’s a starting point and is done at 100 yards. From there once you are consistently hitting 15 or so out of 20 as it is laid out, then you go to the field and shoot at longer ranges.
For focused practice if you really do want to be competent at shooting- whether 300 yards or 600, you must practice consistently and frequently. You need to shoot. There is no replacement for round counts in good practice. No one does that with a magnum- whether it’s a 6.5 PRC or a 7PRC. Barely anyone does it with a 6.5cm or the like. The best thing one can do for their forked shooting is get a 223 with fast twist and a scope that is reliable and functions correctly in mils. The Tikka 223 with 1-8” twist, SWFA 6x MQ scope, and Sportsmatch rings, with a case of 68gr or 75gr ammo is the easy button.

6mm/6.5

I didn't want to derail another thread. So I started this one. Who has shot/witnessed a big game animal past 500 yards with a 6mm or 6.5? Many members here love to tell you their opinion about it, but I am figuring out that damn few have done it. So if you have, please tell me the chambering...

rokslide.com

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

And for good measure:

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

6.5 prc is a reasonable choice for what you're wanting to do.

 

[GotDraw?]

I know this has been talked about a lot, but I want to ask my questions.

1. Is the 6.5 PRC enough out to 700 yards for an Elk like my research tells me?
2. By limiting my shots to 700 yards am I really restricting my chances at a successful hunt by much? I know most shots are taken at 500 or under, but I wanna hear from you guys who have PASSED on 800-900 yard shots because of cartridge limitations and also from those who have made an ethical kill at that range.

Total newbie as far as big game western hunting goes. I’m just beginning to collect gear and preference points. Aiming at doing an OTC hunt with my brother next year to gain some experience while we stack points to get into some desirable units in several different states.

Any input is appreciated, but please refrain from suggesting 30 cal magnums. Shooting those affects my shot placement too much. I would rather have a cartridge I am comfortable with and know I’m always putting in the box, rather than chucking a .30 down range all Willy-nilly with hopes of hitting something.

If I’m swayed enough by some of your arguments here I would be moving up to a 7 PRC. Admittedly, the fact that the cartridge is so new and hasn’t really gained a foothold yet makes me a little nervous about investing so much time and money in one -

@Jjustus16

ahh, social media these days...

Here's a thought to consider-

It is going to take you a few years to build points.

Skip trying to justify the newest tech on the market. Buy a 30.06, 7MM or 300 win and top-shelf factory ammo. These have killed more animals than any other caliber you're considering. Practice to 400yds shooting in every position except the bench.

Take all the hours otherwise invested in researching the *perfect* long distance gun/caliber, all the days/weeks/months practicing at 700yds, building loads to be a perfect shooter....

INSTEAD, be a perfect hunter.

Drive west each year during the season and spend (invest) a week or two or more during each hunting season (while you're building those draw points) hiking/scouting in your prospective units to find where elk usually are so you can get close enough that you're actually hunting them... where they can see you, smell you, hear you and flip you the finger if you blow a stalk.

You might find this interestingly more real-world rewarding than chasing calibers, loads and long distance range time? You'll be (in-elk), you will see them, smell them and learn where to find them and how to actually hunt them. You'll figure out where to camp, where trails are and where water is. You'll find wallows and scrapes...

Just a thought, not a sermon.

JL

 

[woods89]

@Jjustus16

Read the blow threads in their entirety- especially the 223 one as it gives a lot of information about factual, measurable terminal ballistics; then read this- https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...ice-posts-and-rifle-practice-shooting.165291/

That drill has shown with our hunting to have the most direct correlation to shooting and hitting in the field on animals in the west, spot and stalk than anything else. It’s a starting point and is done at 100 yards. From there once you are consistently hitting 15 or so out of 20 as it is laid out, then you go to the field and shoot at longer ranges.
For focused practice if you really do want to be competent at shooting- whether 300 yards or 600, you must practice consistently and frequently. You need to shoot. There is no replacement for round counts in good practice. No one does that with a magnum- whether it’s a 6.5 PRC or a 7PRC. Barely anyone does it with a 6.5cm or the like. The best thing one can do for their forked shooting is get a 223 with fast twist and a scope that is reliable and functions correctly in mils. The Tikka 223 with 1-8” twist, SWFA 6x MQ scope, and Sportsmatch rings, with a case of 68gr or 75gr ammo is the easy button.

This is the way.


For what it's worth, OP, I shoot my 223 about 3-1 to my 6.5 CM.

On the drill linked above, I have a mature whitetail buck and a mature bull elk from the last couple years that I believe both are on my wall because of the practice that drill spawned. Not because they were shot at longer range, but because they were closer range encounters with no extra time. The drill tends to point out how awkward most of us are at handling our rifles, especially when almost all our shooting is prone or from the bench. I'd guess that one would be a more effective rifleman in most cases by shaving time off the shot process inside of 400 than extending range beyond. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule, just speaking generally here.

Best of luck!

 

[Jjustus16]

@Jjustus16

Read the blow threads in their entirety- especially the 223 one as it gives a lot of information about factual, measurable terminal ballistics; then read this- https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...ice-posts-and-rifle-practice-shooting.165291/

That drill has shown with our hunting to have the most direct correlation to shooting and hitting in the field on animals in the west, spot and stalk than anything else. It’s a starting point and is done at 100 yards. From there once you are consistently hitting 15 or so out of 20 as it is laid out, then you go to the field and shoot at longer ranges.
For focused practice if you really do want to be competent at shooting- whether 300 yards or 600, you must practice consistently and frequently. You need to shoot. There is no replacement for round counts in good practice. No one does that with a magnum- whether it’s a 6.5 PRC or a 7PRC. Barely anyone does it with a 6.5cm or the like. The best thing one can do for their forked shooting is get a 223 with fast twist and a scope that is reliable and functions correctly in mils. The Tikka 223 with 1-8” twist, SWFA 6x MQ scope, and Sportsmatch rings, with a case of 68gr or 75gr ammo is the easy button.

Insightful. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it.

 

[Jjustus16]

@Jjustus16

ahh, social media these days...

Here's a thought to consider-

It is going to take you a few years to build points.

Skip trying to justify the newest tech on the market. Buy a 30.06, 7MM or 300 win and top-shelf factory ammo. These have killed more animals than any other caliber you're considering. Practice to 400yds shooting in every position except the bench.

Take all the hours otherwise invested in researching the *perfect* long distance gun/caliber, all the days/weeks/months practicing at 700yds, building loads to be a perfect shooter....

INSTEAD, be a perfect hunter.

Drive west each year during the season and spend (invest) a week during each hunting season (while you're building those draw points) hiking/scouting in your prospective units to find where elk usually are so you can get close enough that you're actually hunting them... where they can see you, smell you, hear you and flip you the finger if you blow a stalk.

You might find this interestingly more real-world rewarding than chasing calibers, loads and long distance range time? You'll be (in-elk), you will see them, smell them and learn where to find them and how to actually hunt them. You'll figure out where to camp, where trails are and where water is. You'll find wallows and scrapes...

Just a thought, not a sermon.

JL

There’s something I hadn’t thought of. SOLID advice. Thank you sir.

 

[Formidilosus]

The drill tends to point out how awkward most of us are at handling our rifles, especially when almost all our shooting is prone or from the bench. I'd guess that one would be a more effective rifleman in most cases by shaving time off the shot process inside of 400 than extending range beyond. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule, just speaking generally here.

Best of luck!

Spot on to both points.

 

[Jjustus16]

This is the way.


For what it's worth, OP, I shoot my 223 about 3-1 to my 6.5 CM.

On the drill linked above, I have a mature whitetail buck and a mature bull elk from the last couple years that I believe both are on my wall because of the practice that drill spawned. Not because they were shot at longer range, but because they were closer range encounters with no extra time. The drill tends to point out how awkward most of us are at handling our rifles, especially when almost all our shooting is prone or from the bench. I'd guess that one would be a more effective rifleman in most cases by shaving time off the shot process inside of 400 than extending range beyond. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule, just speaking generally here.

Best of luck!

Noticeable improvement huh? I was talking with Ernie today about how I was unsure if shooting a 223 would even be beneficial. I guess I have my overwhelming amount of evidence.

 

[woods89]

Noticeable improvement huh? I was talking with Ernie today about how I was unsure if shooting a 223 would even be beneficial. I guess I have my overwhelming amount of evidence.

If you are serious about being a rifleman, you need a 223 trainer. In my opinion, it's that simple.

And give it a year or two, you'll be thinking about hunting with it.

 

[GotDraw?]

Here's another thought, because I'm OCD/Process-driven....

When I was younger, I spent many years handloading for 25-06, 300wby, 300win and putting holes in paper. It was fun.

I had to learn to consider SCOUTING as an even more important part of the "process", even though it is not as quantifiable as measuring bullet groups and the effect of wind, powder choice, primer choice. Scouting is also infinitely more valuable, it builds hunting skills and local knowledge and you will meet other hunters and glean small clues about where to be.

Hunting is a multifaceted art, invest your time in the parts of the art that pay the biggest dividends toward success.


JL

 

[Ernie]

Noticeable improvement huh? I was talking with Ernie today about how I was unsure if shooting a 223 would even be beneficial. I guess I have my overwhelming amount of evidence.

This is how I started two newbies out last August.
Kim was truly new at it, so I started her off with a fast twist 223 Remington.
She had a great first day with it. Steel out to a grand, then off to the dog town.
Yes, they both wanted to use specialty pistols and not rifles...I do have rifles for what it is worth

 

[Harvey_NW]

it triggered a question I have had for a long time - how many long range “hunters” judge a hit or a miss solely by whether or not the animal shows some obvious sign of a hit rather than checking for blood? When you start shooting across canyons, it can take some time and effort to get to where the animal was standing at the time of the shot. Also, elk can soak up a lot of lead without much reaction.

I took my first longer range shot on a mule deer last season on a high hunt @ 583 yards on a dead calm morning before they bedded. Because of my awkward position in some rocks with a little bit of muzzle jump I wasn't able to spot my shot, and the buck had moved low enough my spotter above me had obstructed view by the time I shot. I zoomed out and tracked all of the bucks coming up out of the drainage, and even thought I saw my target buck with no indication of being hit, but I had a gut feeling I made a solid shot and decided to sit there quietly going through the mental motions. After the rest of the bucks got over the ridge, I immediately dropped a layer and bombed down in. I identified where I was pretty sure I shot him, and started doing sweeps with a plan of working a quadrant. Second pass I saw a hoof sticking out behind the brush, not 20 yards from where I pinned on the map.

Not everybody relies on seeing impact, or watching the animal go down. And I agree that if you're going to take a shot you better be ready to go make damn sure of what happened.

 

[DangerRanger]

Bullet you want to shoot
Minimum velocity it works at
Add 100 for giggles and warm fuzzies
Velocity you need to get it to the range you want.

That’s how I’m currently defining how much ass a cartridge needs.

 

[6.5x284]

I took my first longer range shot on a mule deer last season on a high hunt @ 583 yards on a dead calm morning before they bedded. Because of my awkward position in some rocks with a little bit of muzzle jump I wasn't able to spot my shot, and the buck had moved low enough my spotter above me had obstructed view by the time I shot. I zoomed out and tracked all of the bucks coming up out of the drainage, and even thought I saw my target buck with no indication of being hit, but I had a gut feeling I made a solid shot and decided to sit there quietly going through the mental motions. After the rest of the bucks got over the ridge, I immediately dropped a layer and bombed down in. I identified where I was pretty sure I shot him, and started doing sweeps with a plan of working a quadrant. Second pass I saw a hoof sticking out behind the brush, not 20 yards from where I pinned on the map.

Not everybody relies on seeing impact, or watching the animal go down. And I agree that if you're going to take a shot you better be ready to go make damn sure of what happened.
View attachment 550789

Nice job, that's a tough hunt!

 

[208Logan]

Took this bull with my 6.5 prc at 885 yards in AZ

 

[Laramie]

Took this bull with my 6.5 prc at 885 yards in AZView attachment 550810View attachment 550809

Nice bull! What ammo?

 

[208Logan]

Nice bull! What ammo?

Hand loaded 143 eldx