Does the 6.5 PRC have enough ass?

[venado mula]

There is a need to be "like that". I have hunted elk and guided elk hunters since the late 80s. 99% of the time the caliber and bullet combination, is not the limiting factor. The hunters ability is. Marketing and advertising for new equipment and new cartridges leads a lot of new people to believe that the average Joe can shoot an elk easily beyond 500 yards. That just isn't reality for most people. For the sake of the elk you will be shooting at, please keep an open mind to some of the messages and suggestions being offered.

FYI - My 14 year old is ringing steel at similar ranges. He is getting better at trigger control but he has no clue how to judge wind, and is nowhere near good enough to take a cold bore shot, with his heart racing, from an uncomfortable position, at long range. There is so much more to it than being able to control your trigger finger.

Again, I wish you good luck.

Spot on, I'm tired of seeing guys shooting at animals at long ranges and either wounding animals or just making noise for everyone else. Stop listening to people in the hunting industry, my average shots are 83 yards with my rifle that's scoped because mature animals are not standing in the open at 300-infinity yards.

 

[Ernie]

@Jjustus16 ,
I think the thing that sets some people off, is that when someone starts a new thread, they don't put enough context into it.
If, we knew you were in good shape and training...If, we knew you were shooting out to 800 yards already...And if, we knew....
There have been a lot of folks, that think they can just buy their way into proficiency.
I don't think you are one of those guys!
Killing animals at LR is an emotional topic, with strong convictions on both sides. Hang in there, and keep listening to the advice.

The comments about judging wind in canyons and draws is incredibly important.

Being able to dope the wind for a cold bore shot from a field position under pressure is the Achilles Heel of LR hunting.

 

[Dos Perros]

Although OP subsequently clarified his comment, it triggered a question I have had for a long time - how many long range “hunters” judge a hit or a miss solely by whether or not the animal shows some obvious sign of a hit rather than checking for blood? When you start shooting across canyons, it can take some time and effort to get to where the animal was standing at the time of the shot. Also, elk can soak up a lot of lead without much reaction.

My first elk tag, cow elk hunt in Kansas of all places, at last light, last day of the hunt the first elk I saw on a place I could hunt stepped out at 350 yards. I 10-ringed her with a 270 and she just stood there as if she were frozen in time--I didn't know I hit her. Being a greedy little shit I decided to keep shooting. Missed her clean with the second shot. Hit her in the ass third shot and she walked and dragged a leg. That's when I knew I was committed. 10-ringed her with the 4th and she tumbled. Had I not kept shooting I'm not sure what would have happened, might have lost her.

I think a lot of us have learned lessons the hard way, and the beauty of forums is that people can come here, and if they truly listen, they can avoid some of that.

 

[Ernie]

Wind alone, has not only a horizontal component, but also a vertical component. Add terrain to the mix, and it can get humbling quickly. @wind gypsy 's comments are spot on. Add down drafts and up drafts as the day cools down or heats up. Add that the wind may be a lot different when the bullet is at it's apex in the middle of a big canyon, than it is where you are at or where the game is at. Shooting at distance is very thrilling and extremely humbling.

 

[Jjustus16]

Wind alone, has not only a horizontal component, but also a vertical component. Add terrain to the mix, and it can get humbling quickly. @wind gypsy 's comments are spot on. Add down drafts and up drafts as the day cools down or heats up. Add that the wind may be a lot different when the bullet is at it's apex in the middle of a big canyon, than it is where you are at or where the game is at. Shooting at distance is very thrilling and extremely humbling.

From the sounds of it, I should probably be looking at 300 or under, WITH a lot of practice. Hopefully that takes care of some that issue.

Are there resources on here about judging wind, or is that something I’m just going to have to develop through first hand experience?
Clearly, terrain features will affect wind differently and therefore, will be pretty specific to the area I hunt.

At one of the ranges I go to, I know a lot of the older guys (those are the ones who I like to sit with and pick their brains about shooting) will actually hold for wind. Clearly that’s not going to be an option all the time when hunting.

 

[venado mula]

My first elk tag, cow elk hunt in Kansas of all places, at last light, last day of the hunt the first elk I saw on a place I could hunt stepped out at 350 yards. I 10-ringed her with a 270 and she just stood there as if she were frozen in time--I didn't know I hit her. Being a greedy little shit I decided to keep shooting. Missed her clean with the second shot. Hit her in the ass third shot and she walked and dragged a leg. That's when I knew I was committed. 10-ringed her with the 4th and she tumbled. Had I not kept shooting I'm not sure what would have happened, might have lost her.

I think a lot of us have learned lessons the hard way, and the beauty of forums is that people can come here, and if they truly listen, they can avoid some of that.

Good point man, I'm here to educate not complain. Based on 40 years of hunting and growing up/living in the West, there is an atrocious amount of misinformation when it pertains to Western hunting and big game. It's really just not that complicated as the hunting industry fuels it. Learn from these guys on here and take everything with an open mind and validate topics and ideas for yourself. Most opinions from these guys come from hard knocks of beating the shit country to pursue a hunting life. For most of us, it takes balls to jump on here, stay informed and give out information with what's going on in the hunting community and trying to understand everyone's hunting lives. It takes all of us to keep our hunting positive and sustainable.

 

[Ernie]

From the sounds of it, I should probably be looking at 300 or under, WITH a lot of practice. Hopefully that takes care of some that issue.

Are there resources on here about judging wind, or is that something I’m just going to have to develop through first hand experience?
Clearly, terrain features will affect wind differently and therefore, will be pretty specific to the area I hunt.

At one of the ranges I go to, I know a lot of the older guys (those are the ones who I like to sit with and pick their brains about shooting) will actually hold for wind. Clearly that’s not going to be an option all the time when hunting.

Sent you PM

 

[Matt Cashell]

Maybe learn to hunt elk before worrying whether you can kill them at 700 yards.

OP,

First … Welcome to Rokslide.

I get the above comment might seem a little sarcastic, but it is only really passive aggressive if you choose to take it that way.

I have been an occasionally successful elk hunter, and think this is great advice regardless of caliber.

I appreciate that you are working on your long range skills. That only makes the closer shots easier. My recommendation is to get some shooting in the field, away from a range, and in variable terrains and conditions. Find the maximum range you can confidently get first round hits on 10ish inch targets in those varying conditions.

As to the 6.5 PRC, it has all the juice needed for ranges 700 and in. The shooter is one limiting factor in success. The hunter is the bigger limiting factor.

Good luck.

 

[MuleyFever]

FYI: I’m ringing steel at 800 yards with a 7RM consistently.

I was practicing longer range shooting before my elk hunt last year. At the range I was shooting great at 800 yards. My mistake was not spending more time shooting in real field positions. Ended up shooting an elk at 500 yards and to be honest I got a little lucky. Shooting that far while hunting is the real deal and takes more practice than I put into it. Lesson learned for sure. Going forward I wont be practicing longer range shots off a bench anymore. Its just not relevant when you are actually hunting and builds false confidence.

 

[Ernie]

Shooting that far while hunting is the real deal and takes more practice than I put into it. Lesson learned for sure. Going forward I wont be practicing longer range shots off a bench anymore. Its just not relevant when you are actually hunting and builds false confidence.

This is the honesty and advice of experience-Good Post!

 

[LongWayAround]

I’m here asking about shot opportunities from guys like you who have experience doing it. What is the expectation and norm for shots? Am I limiting myself? I think that’s a pretty fair question.

So maybe, keep your passive aggressive comments to yourself bud?

Leading with a statement about being new to western hunting and wanting to kill animals at long range is asking to be chastised, bud.

I'm not passive aggressive. That is my suggestion. After you have learned how to actually hunt them, worry about whether you can kill them at long range. The exciting stuff happens much closer.

A normal shot is inside of 400 yards, unless you so choose. If you are wondering if 700 yards is a normal shot or being somehow handicapped, you are clueless. Seriously.

 

[EMAZ]

I’ve hunted out West for over 25 years…watched 7 elk drop in that time (draw out here seems to average ~1:6 years)…ironically the longest shot was my son’s 1st elk hunt where he took a cow at 120 yards. Others were all bulls: 2 with a bow at 35 & 72 yards; 4 with rifle averaging <100 yards. Been within 100-120 yards of 360+ class bulls with a bow or without an elk tag on other hunts; also been within 250 yards of bulls across a canyon with my bow with no way to get across without rappelling equipment. Had a fun time getting them fired up with calling and watching them pace. In the 700-1k+ yard range is typically glassing down from high vantage point and all were distances that could’ve been closed by hiking or elk were hauling ass from a tree line across a meadow that never would’ve presented an opportunity. From my experience, my equipment was never my limiting factor.

6.5 PRC is what i recommended and set up for my nephew to hunt elk sized game and under here in AZ. When I’m not with my bow, I’m taking my newer .280ai (very similar ballistic stats); my son used a 7mm-08…all have manageable recoil with enough effective range for distances I’d be comfortable shooting an elk at (and certainly enough for closer ranges). Ironically, all of my personal big game with a rifle to this point have been taken with the classic .30-06.

Any of the 6.5 and up calibers should serve for the extended distance (up to 500yds) as long as you’re proficient with it…anything under 6.5, start thinking max range of 300 yards imo (which is still where I try to be within with any rifle when possible). Also, keep in mind, anything out to 400 becomes drastically different when you tack on just that extra 100 yards to get to 500, and even more so beyond that.

 

[TheViking]

I am a decent shot, not a pro. I practice out to 600 yards on steel (furthest I can shoot) and can hit it 4 out of 5 times or so on a calm day. Sometimes worse, sometimes better.

The biggest thing I have realized when starting to explore 'long range shooting' is the wind.

I am a 6.5 PRC shooter as well.

I just did a quick calc on a 700 yard shot using my ballistic data.

For a 10 mph 90 degree wind @ 700 yards - the bullet is drifting 21.2"
For a 7 mph 90 degree wind @ 700 yards - the bullet is drifting 14.9"

Can you PROPERLY gauge/measure the wind? Do you KNOW the difference between a 7mph wind and a 10mph wind when it comes down to it? I know I can't. I don't have the experience or the tools to do so.

7" is a big difference on an animal, even an elk, in my book at least.

Now, cut that distance in half.

For a 10 mph 90 degree wind @ 350 yards - the bullet is drifting 4.9"
For a 7 mph 90 degree wind @ 350 yards - the bullet is drifting 3.5"

Now you have roughly a 1.5" difference, MUCH more manageable and much more of a buffer.

I would personally never shoot at 700 yards, even on a perfect day. I have WAY too much respect for the animal.

I don't have a dead set MAX distance I would take a shot at an animal, it depends on way too many variables, but it's in the 400-500 yard range.


Food for thought...

 

[Harvey_NW]

Post questions like this in the long range forum, it will help keep the pitchforks at bay..

I was looking at it as are they gonna give you that chance. Fellas are pretty smart. I’ve heard a lot of stories about chasing a bull and then he gets over the ridge and he’s gone..

I suppose that’s the name of the game though. I’ve had some pretty distant shots on big bucks that I passed on thinking I could get him in closer only to have him disappear.

This is exactly the reason I started shooting long range, to be prepared for a situation or opportunity where I wasn't going to have the time to just "walk over there" and I could confidently shoot a set distance, conditions permitting. Figuring out those limitations takes real world practice, which it sounds like you're doing.

From the sounds of it, I should probably be looking at 300 or under, WITH a lot of practice. Hopefully that takes care of some that issue.

Run the ballistics on a calculator. You be the judge of that, because it's going to depend on your ability. Can you shoot a .75" 10 shot group out of prone or off a backpack, or are you more of a 2 MOA guy like a ton of hunters don't want to admit?

Are there resources on here about judging wind, or is that something I’m just going to have to develop through first hand experience?
Clearly, terrain features will affect wind differently and therefore, will be pretty specific to the area I hunt.

There are some great videos on youtube, and articles and videos all over the web, just search.

This is a dicey topic, but since you're here asking the questions instead of watching flat billers on youtube, I'll contribute. Do what you can to learn what's been suggested, and apply it in real life. See what you and your system are really capable of, and set your limitations based on your ability. FWIW, I got into long range almost 10 years ago and I have only hunted Western states my entire life, and the amount of animals I've shot at over 250 yards is 2.

 

[wind gypsy]

From the sounds of it, I should probably be looking at 300 or under, WITH a lot of practice. Hopefully that takes care of some that issue.

Are there resources on here about judging wind, or is that something I’m just going to have to develop through first hand experience?
Clearly, terrain features will affect wind differently and therefore, will be pretty specific to the area I hunt.

At one of the ranges I go to, I know a lot of the older guys (those are the ones who I like to sit with and pick their brains about shooting) will actually hold for wind. Clearly that’s not going to be an option all the time when hunting.

Here's a start for doping the wind. Actually being able to read it is a different thing.

Managing the Wind

Managing the wind for precision rifle shooters Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle-related.

www.snipershide.com

I don't think the overwhelming majority of shooters in flat areas who aren't travelling to shoot comps or practice in broken terrain are ever going to become proficient at it when it comes to western hunting. I just try to be able to recognize some signs of wind speed and if my read says I need to hold significantly off POA (after dialing for elevation) and I'm not extremely confident in that call, I shouldn't shoot.

 

[Kenn]

Can you PROPERLY gauge/measure the wind? Do you KNOW the difference between a 7mph wind and a 10mph wind when it comes down to it? I know I can't. I don't have the experience or the tools to do so.

I would add to that, that even if you can tell the difference it's likely to change by the time you pull the trigger and it may vary between you and the animal.

 

[bow_dozer]

You could lower that number to 300 and still have about the same chances of success regardless what legal gun you're carrying. I've hunted elk for over 40 years and I still don't know many people shooting them over 300 yards. Being capable of shooting LR is great, but being capable of hunting is even better.

I would agree 100%, however my "average" of all the bulls taken is around 420. Cows average would be around 200.
We live very close to a 1400 yard range and have the ability to shoot quite a bit.
My 2 cents... not hard to ring steel laying prone at the range under comfortable conditions.

Now transition to mountain winds/thermals (always blowing) / adrenaline / less than ideal shooting positions. Over 500 becomes more than just a "layup".

I've have mostly used 7RM and 300 RUM with heavy breaks on them. I am now carrying a lightweight 6.5 PRC for the backcountry hunts.

 

[bow_dozer]

You just sneak up on them. Or, better yet, let them come to you.

View attachment 550629

EPIC!!

 

[sndmn11]

You guys could get the point across with kinder words, rather than saying “maybe learn how to hunt elk first.” That’s not adding much value to the conversation.

It got your attention and I think that was the intention.

@TheViking mashed some wind drift stuff for you that I think is invaluable.

In reference to the "learn to hunt" comment...
When you are shooting at an animal they are either clueless to danger or aware of it. 700 yards is about 3/4 of a second flight time whereas 300 yards is less than half that. Considering cone of fire, animal movement, etc., things can get way off track. For the animals that are clueless, the fun is trying to beat them at their daily life and get closer.

I shot an elk at a little over 400 yards last year, and it wasn't as cool as the mule deer I shot at 120ish, or the phorn I closed from 500 to 175 the year before.

I think practicing at whatever distance you can is outstanding, but a very realistic expectation for in the field shooting with physical effort leading up to it is 200-300 yards as a goal. It will also help you find shot animals because in the mountains 700 yards is usually a few land features away, and that might take a whole heck of a lot longer to get to than the typical 200-300.

 

[PNWGATOR]

If you want to learn riflemanship from field shooting positions and how to kill efficiently it’s essential you start with the correct bullet. Build a robust delivery system to deliver the bullet that achieves the appropriate wound channels with the velocity necessary at the distances you want to kill stuff. Learn the fundamentals of how to properly decrease, mount torque and lock down all screws. Learn what’s important in scope selection. Learn about ten shot zeros. Learn why mils work so well for efficient killing. Learn to shoot wind brackets. Purposefully practice by shooting the rifle drills outlined in the thread you’ll find on Rokslide when you’re doing your due diligence. Choose something that lets you shoot purposefully A LOT. Read the threads that researchinstuff linked in his reply.
This forum genuinely has the correct content and knowledge and expertise available to everyone. Many just need to open their minds and let go of what they think they know.