Does the 223/6mm for everything change when hunt cost $$$

[Reburn]

Scenario: a Mountain Nyala is 1000 yards away and you've paid $500,000 to hunt it. This resulted in your wife leaving you and taking the kids with her. It's last light on your last day and you NEED to take the shot. But it's facing away quartering hard. The only shot you have is to put one through its back leg and hoping that bullet makes it into the vitals. WHAT DO YOU DO .223 MAN?

This is a stupid scenario.
223 doesnt have the velocity at 1000 yards.
No caliber is going to save a bad shot. A bad shot is a bad shot. I can tell you a 300 prc wont make it through a nilgai at 300 yards with that shot. Nothing would have. It was a bad shot that shouldnt have been taken.

 

[Darryle]

I like how it's all Texans paying huge cash to hunt and needing bigger guns.

I like how anyone defends anything and then discounts someone from Texas simply because they are from Texas.

 

[JohnJohnson]

223 doesnt have the velocity at 1000 yards.

Then you're going back to your studio apartment (it's just temporary, your wife kept the house in the divorce and you're looking for a more permanent place) emptyhanded.

No caliber is going to save a bad shot. A bad shot is a bad shot. I can tell you a 300 prc wont make it through a nilgai at 300 yards with that shot. Nothing would have. It was a bad shot that shouldnt have been taken.

Joking, man.

 

[Darryle]

I wonder how many outfitters would allow you to even bring a 223 on that type of hunt?

I guess, we can start sending email requests to find out.

 

[Zork]

I like how anyone defends anything and then discounts someone from Texas simply because they are from Texas.

Just an observation.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

This endless arguing is so stupid. The .223 works. There's endless documentation to back it up on critters as big as coastal brown bears... Fwiw, if you think 1000 yards, hard quartering away, on a non sentient 4 legged critter is life or death, you shouldn't be hunting anyways. You need to go sort out your priorities in life.

 

[Formidilosus]

In my opinion, if you choose a 223 to travel to Central Asia to hunt Ibex or Sheep, I think you are a fool.

Based on what? You have no experience with it.

Y'all can defend the 223/77gr TMK combination, but I will bet damn good money, regardless of what you say here, you aren't getting on a plane and heading there with that combination. You are free to prove me wrong, takes anywhere from $27k to $57k and some time.

Who needs to prove you wrong, and why does it matter?

 

[Formidilosus]

I like how anyone defends anything and then discounts someone from Texas simply because they are from Texas.

No one discounts things because someone is from Texas, but the stereotypical Texan is a stereotype for a reason- and you are demonstrating it here.

 

[SloppyJ]

Here's the deal that no one will admit. On the surface, yes I would take my 300PRC over my .223 if I planned a 5 figure hunt. Does it make me feel more safe, it sure does.

Now, I'm saying that as not having had my .223 for very long or practiced much with either rifle. If I put 1000k rounds down the .223 and take some medium sized game with it, maybe that would change my mind. It depends on a few factors I think. The most important being how much you practice and how competent you are with that rifle. On the other hand, a person that doesn't practice that often will likely shoot the .223 much better.

I'm not saying either side is wrong. However, with what I've personally seen, I would FEEL like I was covered in more situations with a rifle that had a larger bullet. Maybe that will change as I start working more with my .223 but I don't know that yet. I do know that practicing with a .223 has every indication that it will make me a better shot and hunter overall though. This should be a completely subjective topic based on each person's history.

 

[Mcfish]

I'd confer with the outfitter first and foremost. Then I'd ask the guys who I call for references on that hunt what they used and what they'd do different. Then I'd go about the decision of what to carry.

 

[ElPollo]

I like how anyone defends anything and then discounts someone from Texas simply because they are from Texas.

I live here and I get it. I regularly hear people say stuff like, “Bless his heart, but his brain is about like a dried pea rolling around in an oversized Stetson hat.” And I usually cannot disagree with those statements.

 

[Marbles]

Here's the deal that no one will admit. On the surface, yes I would take my 300PRC over my .223 if I planned a 5 figure hunt. Does it make me feel more safe, it sure does.

Now, I'm saying that as not having had my .223 for very long or practiced much with either rifle. If I put 1000k rounds down the .223 and take some medium sized game with it, maybe that would change my mind. It depends on a few factors I think. The most important being how much you practice and how competent you are with that rifle. On the other hand, a person that doesn't practice that often will likely shoot the .223 much better.

I'm not saying either side is wrong. However, with what I've personally seen, I would FEEL like I was covered in more situations with a rifle that had a larger bullet. Maybe that will change as I start working more with my .223 but I don't know that yet. I do know that practicing with a .223 has every indication that it will make me a better shot and hunter overall though. This should be a completely subjective topic based on each person's history.

So, I have shot over 2000, 223 rounds since mid January. I have 29 round groups that are sub 1.25 inches at 100 yards, and from prone can consistently get sub 1.5 MOA 10 round groups.

With my 308 Tikka, I get 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards, I cannot keep the target in the scopes FOV, and practice with 50 to 100 rounds in a day sucks as my shoulder pocket gets sore.

I will take any shot out to 200 yards with the 223, and if conditions are good, 300 yards. I need more practice at long range before I go further on game, but I'm pretty consistent on steel at 400 yards.

I would not take a shot over 200 yards with the 308 in the field (that is with an AB Raptor 8 and 3 inch reflex), I've put several hundred rounds through it and do not feel it would be right by the animal.

I sold my 30-06 and own no cartridge that recoils harder than the 308. I would not even consider a 300PRC in a hunting weight rifle.

Local shop has a sub 5 pound 300PRC, it is a "sheep rifle, just shoot it 3 times to zero the scope, then you only have to fire it once more for the sheep" is what I was told. Sounds like a piss poor idea to me.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Local shop has a sub 5 pound 300PRC, it is a "sheep rifle, just shot it 3 times to zero the scope, then you only have to fire it once more for the sheep" is what I was told. Sounds like a piss poor idea to me.

Which is why whenever I have to physically go into a gun shop, I do not engage in any conversation. Literally a waste of time, other than saying "Hi, Thank You.. then walk away as quickly as possible as the Fudd starts to spew from their mouths.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

If I chose something larger than 223/6mm it would seem I literally had more $$$ than sense.

 

[Darryle]

Based on what? You have no experience with it.





Who needs to prove you wrong, and why does it matter?

My experience has no bearing on the question asked. I am comfortable with my "lack" of experience in all matters 223, hell, I am quite comfortable with pretty much anything I don't have experience with, which is a lot, but I don't get all butt hurt when someone disagrees with me. I bought a "Rokslide Special" just so I can get the experience with a Tikka 223.

No one needs to prove me wrong, besides, you can only prove me wrong by doing exactly what you claim you would do.

FTR, no one needs to believe you simply because you say so.

I have nothing to prove, the question was asked "if" and I responded no I wouldn't and I responded that regardless of what someone says, they aren't getting on a plane to go on a once in a lifetime hunt with a 223.

 

[180ls1]

You can use emotion to say “well it’s more money, so the thing that does the came thing- but it looks smaller won’t work”. But that isn’t logic or reality.

What is your direct experience with the 77gr TMK or heavy ELD-M’s on game animals?

We may just agree to disagree on this.

The data supports that people generally use both emotion and logic in a decision-making process. I'll stand by that unless you can show me otherwise.

 

[RyanT26]

I don’t own anything larger than a .308 so my opinion may not be as valid as someone .338.
There isn’t a shot I wouldn’t take with my 6CM that that I would with my .308.

 

[LongWayAround]

I just gave my balls to my wife and stopped worrying about it.

"If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle."

 

[solarshooter]

To me, this comes down to a discussion that we had on a different thread, basically how much loss in precision do you get with increasing recoil, and how does that trade against the increase in wind performance you get for that recoil. Because it's hard to quantify the loss in precision due to recoil in suboptimal field positions, it's hard to conclusively answer this question.

In a different different thread, we also discussed the FACT that given a well constructed bullet, a larger bullet will do more terminal damage than a smaller one. It's not necessarily about energy, but just more mass going into the animal in fragmentation and doing more cutting and bleeding. I think Form himself has said the larger well constructed bullets are "overkill" for most game, which must imply that they do more damage.

To me, more damage means more tolerance for error in shot placement. Higher BC bullet going faster means more tolerance for wind error, which is one of the largest sources of error. Practice and recoil management are very important, and any gun you plan to hunt with should be a gun you practice with. But IF you can provably shoot a higher recoiling cartridge well, then I don't see why it's doing anything but helping you increase the likelihood of killing an animal.

Disclaimer, I don't shoot a big magnum, and I just built a 6CM which is quickly becoming my favorite gun. But I also don't hunt beyond 600yds and I don't pay 5-6 figures for hunts.

 

[yeti12]

I think you would be pretty crazy to not take a 6um on those hunts. I'd hate to have to use a 300wm or something like that. Sounds terrible.