Do your research before joining "sportsmens conservation" type groups...

[Mike21]

Okay, let's do some "research" on watchdog.org...

Founded by the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity

which was founded by the Sam Adams Alliance.

From Wikipedia...

"According to Internal Revenue Service records, 95% of Franklin’s revenue in 2011 came from a charity called DonorsTrust. In that year DonorsTrust distributed US$86 million which according to the group’s website are private gifts and used for “funding sensitive or controversial issues”, an arrangement said to obscure the identity of the donors wishing to keep their charitable giving private. The $6.3 million donation to the Franklin Center was the second-largest gift made in 2011 by the group.[11] DonorsTrust's top contributors were Charles and David Koch."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchdog.org

Did you really use Wikipedia as a source to discredit my use of sources? Ha Ha

 

[avodude]

“There’s a lot of talk about Obama and guns, and — I’ll be honest with you — a lot of fear,” said Tawney. “But at least he’s not trying to fake it. Not like John Kerry with a dead goose over his shoulder and new hunting outfit one month before the election.” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/opinion/16egan.html?_r=1&

I read the article and you're taking his quote out of context.

 

[avodude]

Did you really use Wikipedia as a source to discredit my use of sources? Ha Ha

I absolutely did. Ha ha back at you

 

[Mike21]

Montana Hunters and Anglers President, Land Tawney
Member of Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/mtsportsmen/)
Member of Senator Tester’s Montana Sportsmen’s Advisory Panel (http://tester.senate.gov/Newsroom/pr_021011_sportsmen.cfm)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Secretary, Kendall Van Dyke
Member of Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/mtsportsmen/)
An elected Democrat State Senator from Billings (http://kendallvandyk.com/)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Treasurer, Barrett Kaiser
Former staffer to Sen. Max Baucus
Former consultant to Sen. Tester’s 2006 campaign (http://www.hilltoppublicsolutions.com/about/team_barrett.html)
Donor to Senator Tester (http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/qind/)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Treasurer, Beau Wright
Democrat activist and long time Tester supporter
http://bigskydemocrats.org/meetus
http://intelligentdiscontent.com/2006/05/28/490/
http://bigskydemocrats.org/
Montana Hunters and Anglers Director, George Cooper
Donor to Senator Tester (http://w5.melissadata.com/lookups/Fec.asp?cyear=2012&cident=C00412304)
Lobbyist for Forbes, Cauthen and Williams (The Forbes is Jeff Forbes, former Chief of Staff to Sen. Max Baucus)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Donor, Robin T Nichols
Donor to Montana Hunters and Anglers: total contributions $5,000
Donor to Tester: total contributions $2,500 (http://tinyurl.com/67xavm3)

 

[avodude]

What point are you trying to make above?

 

[avodude]

Is the point you are trying to make... democrat = bad?

 

[avodude]

Weird how you have this list just all of a sudden...random. Half the links don't work.

 

[Lukem]

Mike21, if you'd care to post everybody that you donate money to, I'm pretty sure that we can show that you donated money to Obama.

No political party has the corner on the market for standing up for our wildlife, outdoors or even our gun rights. It's complicated.

BHA probably isn't unlike the makeup of Rokslide. If we all divulged all of our political/religious beliefs here and wore them on our sleeve, we probably wouldn't be able to stand each other. It's awesome when people of different backgrounds can come together with a common passion and unify and share their love of the outdoors (or whatever it may be).

 

[Matt Cashell]

Mike21,

Lukem is right on. Its complicated. We can't just jump one issue, or one vote, or one politician. If we did that I could just come at you for not supporting gun-rights advocates like Senetors Tester and Baucus. Are you anti-gun because you posted something implying they were bad (Post 64)? No, that would be ridiculous.

Tester wrote the bill allowing concealed carry in national parks and defended it under heat form the press:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-05/Mont-guns-national-parks/52390392/1

Baucus supported it also, as mentioned in the article.

Does that mean that those BHA members affiliated with Tester and Baucus are pro-gun and since you don't support them, you are anti-gun? Of course not.

In the same way, Land Tawney supporting Obama doesn't make him anti-gun. I haven't read anything about him supporting gun control, and that isn't what your "gotcha" quote of his says either. There still is nothing about BHA somehow advocating for gun control either.

It is hard to wrap my mind around the idea that an organization that gives guns away to members, and has gun company executives on the board, would be secretly anti-gun.

It makes more sense that the board is comprised of a wide variety of people including former Obama supporters and current gun executives finding common ground for issues hunters can come together on.

OK now I am really done.

 

[AZ Vince]

I cannot, in good conscience, support BHA as much as I love backcountry hunting.
Being that this nation was founded as a republic the ownership of vast swaths of land in the western states should belong to the states and not the federal government. I resent that someone far away in Sodom on the Potomac has the nerve to think they can tell me what to do. That is a matter best left to the states.
Federal ownership of this land is unconstitutional.

 

[zwoehr]

I cannot, in good conscience, support BHA as much as I love backcountry hunting.
Being that this nation was founded as a republic the ownership of vast swaths of land in the western states should belong to the states and not the federal government. I resent that someone far away in Sodom on the Potomac has the nerve to think they can tell me what to do. That is a matter best left to the states.
Federal ownership of this land is unconstitutional.

I didn't realize that the bha was responsible for Fed govt ownership of land. Oh no!
Back on topic.
To the op. Your original post cites articles that are making arguments based on logical fallacies, ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments, begging a question, etc. So based purely on logic they are false. Not to mention the fact that they are obviously trying to divert a conversation about access and conservation, issues which we should all be in agreement on, into one about politics and personalities.
The BHA is not anti gun no matter what some propagandists say. Your source articles are red herrings meant to divide people of similar interests.

 

[Ceby7]

Montana Hunters and Anglers Secretary, Kendall Van Dyke
Member of Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/mtsportsmen/)
An elected Democrat State Senator from Billings (http://kendallvandyk.com/)

Kendall Van Dyke was also the author of MT's Stream Access Law securing the right of you and I to access 'our' rivers from bridges and roads.

Not to mention he is also a member of the MT Bowhunters Association, RMEF, and NRA to name a few.

But God forbid, he's a Democrat so he must be anti-gun.

 

[Mike21]

Kendall Van Dyke was also the author of MT's Stream Access Law securing the right of you and I to access 'our' rivers from bridges and roads.

Not to mention he is also a member of the MT Bowhunters Association, RMEF, and NRA to name a few.

But God forbid, he's a Democrat so he must be anti-gun.

Is Obama anti gun ? Yes or no? If so can you say that voting for him or raising money for him is not supporting anti gun legislation? land Tawney says he doesn't care, that Obama is anti gun.. BHA should advertise and advocate that they are a politically motivated organization that supports the democratic side of things only, and actively works on democratic campaigns. Let's see what that does to thee donations from "sportsmen". I notice a trend of trying to discredit the source instead talking about the merits of voting.


Montana Hunters and Anglers President, Land Tawney
Member of Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/mtsportsmen/)
Member of Senator Tester’s Montana Sportsmen’s Advisory Panel (http://tester.senate.gov/Newsroom/pr_021011_sportsmen.cfm)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Secretary, Kendall Van Dyke
Member of Montana Sportsmen for Obama Committee (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/mtsportsmen/)
An elected Democrat State Senator from Billings (http://kendallvandyk.com/)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Treasurer, Barrett Kaiser
Former staffer to Sen. Max Baucus
Former consultant to Sen. Tester’s 2006 campaign (http://www.hilltoppublicsolutions.com/about/team_barrett.html)
Donor to Senator Tester (http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/qind/)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Treasurer, Beau Wright
Democrat activist and long time Tester supporter
http://bigskydemocrats.org/meetus
http://intelligentdiscontent.com/2006/05/28/490/
http://bigskydemocrats.org/
Montana Hunters and Anglers Director, George Cooper
Donor to Senator Tester (http://w5.melissadata.com/lookups/Fec.asp?cyear=2012&cident=C00412304)
Lobbyist for Forbes, Cauthen and Williams (The Forbes is Jeff Forbes, former Chief of Staff to Sen. Max Baucus)
Montana Hunters and Anglers Donor, Robin T Nichols
Donor to Montana Hunters and Anglers: total contributions $5,000
Donor to Tester: total contributions $2,500 (http://tinyurl.com/67xavm3)

 

[gelton]

Mike21,

Lukem is right on. Its complicated. We can't just jump one issue, or one vote, or one politician. If we did that I could just come at you for not supporting gun-rights advocates like Senetors Tester and Baucus. Are you anti-gun because you posted something implying they were bad (Post 64)? No, that would be ridiculous.

Tester wrote the bill allowing concealed carry in national parks and defended it under heat form the press:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-05/Mont-guns-national-parks/52390392/1

Baucus supported it also, as mentioned in the article.

Does that mean that those BHA members affiliated with Tester and Baucus are pro-gun and since you don't support them, you are anti-gun? Of course not.

In the same way, Land Tawney supporting Obama doesn't make him anti-gun. I haven't read anything about him supporting gun control, and that isn't what your "gotcha" quote of his says either. There still is nothing about BHA somehow advocating for gun control either.

It is hard to wrap my mind around the idea that an organization that gives guns away to members, and has gun company executives on the board, would be secretly anti-gun.

It makes more sense that the board is comprised of a wide variety of people including former Obama supporters and current gun executives finding common ground for issues hunters can come together on.

OK now I am really done.

These people aren't anti gun necessarily, they just are members of and/or donate to a party whose platform is openly anti 2nd amendment. They believe guns only have a place in shooting sports and hunting not for self defense or protection of liberty. It behooves them to found and become members of organizations that support hunting just as it be hooves politicians to dress up in camo and play hunt for a photo op. It also gives them cover so people like those on this thread can support them and claim they aren't anti gun (forget it being a known fact that the people they support and the party they belong to are openly anti gun).

 

[T43]

It looks like that video did what it was intended to do... sad. I still find it troubling that some people can't understand that our right to bear arms and the federal government's right to own land are both clearly spelled out in the constitution. The states trying to take over public land is no worse than a state trying to change the second amendment. BHA and the NRA are not opponents of each other and are both working to defend our constitutional rights but groups that want control of public land are finding it easy to make some people believe one and not the other.

 

[Mike21]

These people aren't anti gun necessarily, they just are members of and/or donate to a party whose platform is openly anti 2nd amendment. They believe guns only have a place in shooting sports and hunting not for self defense or protection of liberty. It behooves them to found and become members of organizations that support hunting just as it be hooves politicians to dress up in camo and play hunt for a photo op. It also gives them cover so people like those on this thread can support them and claim they aren't anti gun (forget it being a known fact that the people they support and the party they belong to are openly anti gun).

Great Explanation!

 

[Mike21]

Mike21, if you'd care to post everybody that you donate money to, I'm pretty sure that we can show that you donated money to Obama.

No political party has the corner on the market for standing up for our wildlife, outdoors or even our gun rights. It's complicated.

BHA probably isn't unlike the makeup of Rokslide. If we all divulged all of our political/religious beliefs here and wore them on our sleeve, we probably wouldn't be able to stand each other. It's awesome when people of different backgrounds can come together with a common passion and unify and share their love of the outdoors (or whatever it may be).

Back to the initial thesis of the post. " Do your research...." so that you dont donate money to support politicians un knowingly..... POLITICIANS not PARTY.

 

[_Nick_]

BHA probably isn't unlike the makeup of Rokslide. If we all divulged all of our political/religious beliefs here and wore them on our sleeve, we probably wouldn't be able to stand each other. It's awesome when people of different backgrounds can come together with a common passion and unify and share their love of the outdoors (or whatever it may be).

This.

And there's a lot of black and white thinking going on in this thread.

 

[JWP58]

I cannot, in good conscience, support BHA as much as I love backcountry hunting.
Being that this nation was founded as a republic the ownership of vast swaths of land in the western states should belong to the states and not the federal government. I resent that someone far away in Sodom on the Potomac has the nerve to think they can tell me what to do. That is a matter best left to the states.
Federal ownership of this land is unconstitutional.

That's interesting. So what you're saying is the state of Nevada's constitution is illegitimate? Since it clears states, in the first few paragraphs mind you, that "forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory ... at the sole and entire disposition of the United States."

Ya Mr. Bundy never told you about that did he....nor did they mention that at the last sovereign citizen rally either...just guessing.

I guess since the NV state constitution is invalid, its still a territory???

 

[Matt Cashell]

Guys,

I feel like we are really heading downhill. I hope everybody can just move on and find some common ground.