Dipping my toes into the longer range shooting game

[Jpsmith1]

And thinking about rifles, optics and such.

End goal for now is to consistently ring steel at 1000 yards. Currently, I'm pretty capable to 300 or so but haven't had the opportunity to stretch beyond that simply due to availability of facilities. There is a 600 yard range across the county, a 700 yard range 2 counties over and 1000 yards is a much harder nut to crack just in terms of finding a place to shoot. 1000 yards is probably a 3 hour drive.

I've got 2 rifles that are likely capable of the task. Both Remington 700s, one in 6mm Remington and one in 7mm Rem Mag. 6mm wears an old 4x12 Redfield scope and the 7mm wears a Burris Veracity 3x15 scope that I absolutely HATE and plan to remove and replace.

Both are "Sporter" rifles with the slim barrel profile and basic factory wood stocks.

What's your best advice in proceeding aside from just burning powder and getting rounds downrange?

Any first order upgrades?

 

[Macintosh]

Ditch the 7 rem mag for this purpose. You need to shoot more than a few rounds, and that recoil is going to be a liability. The 6mm is a much better choice.
Troll the classifieds for a reliable dialing scope in Mils. Mount it well. Buy yourself a pallet of ammo for Christmas. Read up on this thread. And go shoot. You’ll sort out the rest quickly enough.

 

[Chris in TN]

IIRC Burris scopes haven't fared well in the drop tests here but the average user has reported good service from them.

Why do you hate it? If I really hated it, I'd swap it, and if you're serious about the long part of long range, if I had to pick from among the cheaper 'drop test' reliable options...well, I did recently. I picked a used NF SHV 4-14 and believe that's a rock solid choice on a modest budget.

Even with a slow factory twist (9") the 6mm Remington can be a very good cartridge. So can the 7mmRM but there's no reason to hamper yourself with all that recoil.

As for upgrades, the factory 700 stocks aren't great for prone use, but aren't terrible either. Are the rifles bedded? How well do they shoot now? Does the 6mm 'walk' zero when it gets hot? How's the trigger? Do you reload (meaning, can you afford to whip up enough ammo to start practicing a bunch, since 6mmR long-range ammo isn't common in factory offerings?)

If your Burris has seemed to be reliable thus far I'd probably swap scopes and use the Burris on the 6mm and start there. If not, put something more reliable in its place. Then shoot until you develop enough skill that you can identify aspects of your gear that are hindering you. That'll take longer than you expect. Your gear likely isn't that terrible (assuming scope dials/returns and holds zero)

Also - 600 yards is PLENTY of distance to give you months (or more) of experience. From a bench with decent gear 600 will seem easy on calm days then you'll show up one day and the wind will be blowing and it'll hit you really quickly that it isn't actually so easy after all. Don't worry about seeking out those 700-1000 ranges. The local range I'm a member of goes to 1250 and I almost never shoot past 750. As a hunter I see 750 as more or less my hard firm maximum limit, ever, under any conditions. And I haven't shot past 500 since spring, as I'm sort of focused on getting my kids up to speed now.

My oldest recently got qualified to shoot past 500 at the local range (we can shoot to 500 from home here) and I am hoping next week to spend some time with her at 600 and 750. I highly doubt we even consider 1000-1250 any time soon.

 

[bnewt3]

Ill share my path so far. Not saying right or best, its just what ive chosen to do and i made a couple of mistakes that ill share as well.

I got a Savage 110 Tactical in 6.5 Creed for a few reasons:
1) it was available in LH, yes im correct-handed
2) good rep for accuracy
3) it has a heavier barrel profile
4) it has a modular stock with spacers for LOP and interchangeable cheek risers
5) wide/flatish forend
6) good aftermarket support(not as much as Rem 700 and Tikka but maybe 3rd place behind those)
7) comes with AICS mag so I can have 10 rds in a mag thats available most places
8) 6.5 Creed is cheap and widely available in a wide range of options
9) I got it for a bit over $700 with transfer and shipping
10) barrel is threaded so I can add a brake or suppressor


My first and worst mistake is getting a Bushnell Match Pro 6-24x50 scope, i got blinded by the price. There is nothing wrong with the scope, it does exactly what it should but its marketed and built toward rimfire and doesnt fit my purpose because:
1) IMO the center dot is too big. Even at 100yds it mostly covers most bullseyes.
2) it doesnt have a zero stop
3) its total elevation adjustment is like 18 mils. With the 20MOA rail, I have enough to get to 1000, but not a whole lot more(according to ballistics app & how much travel I have from zero).
4) because it doesnt have typical LR elevation range, it doesnt count revs on the turret.

Also, the modular stock is far better in theory than practice. It still has a traditional hunting grip angle so its not terribly comfortable on the wrist to shoot for long. "adjusting" the stock requires removing screws, having different length screws depending on which spacer/s you use and you have to remove the butt pad to change the cheek riser. So once its fitted to you, its OK. Getting it there can be a pain.

So I am looking at a better scope, im leaning towards an Athlon Helos 4.5-20x50 or 6-24x56

I also plan to put it into a MDT XRS stock/chassis which will give me better ergonomics and more convenient adjustability.

IMO the trigger is fine, one tiny, itty bitty, little notch of creep, then crisp break. Not great, but ive felt ALOT worse.

I havent shot past 250 because thats all we have close.

I hope that helps as you look at your options.

 

[Jpsmith1]

IIRC Burris scopes haven't fared well in the drop tests here but the average user has reported good service from them.

Why do you hate it? If I really hated it, I'd swap it, and if you're serious about the long part of long range, if I had to pick from among the cheaper 'drop test' reliable options...well, I did recently. I picked a used NF SHV 4-14 and believe that's a rock solid choice on a modest budget.

Even with a slow factory twist (9") the 6mm Remington can be a very good cartridge. So can the 7mmRM but there's no reason to hamper yourself with all that recoil.

As for upgrades, the factory 700 stocks aren't great for prone use, but aren't terrible either. Are the rifles bedded? How well do they shoot now? Does the 6mm 'walk' zero when it gets hot? How's the trigger? Do you reload (meaning, can you afford to whip up enough ammo to start practicing a bunch, since 6mmR long-range ammo isn't common in factory offerings?)

If your Burris has seemed to be reliable thus far I'd probably swap scopes and use the Burris on the 6mm and start there. If not, put something more reliable in its place. Then shoot until you develop enough skill that you can identify aspects of your gear that are hindering you. That'll take longer than you expect. Your gear likely isn't that terrible (assuming scope dials/returns and holds zero)

Also - 600 yards is PLENTY of distance to give you months (or more) of experience. From a bench with decent gear 600 will seem easy on calm days then you'll show up one day and the wind will be blowing and it'll hit you really quickly that it isn't actually so easy after all. Don't worry about seeking out those 700-1000 ranges. The local range I'm a member of goes to 1250 and I almost never shoot past 750. As a hunter I see 750 as more or less my hard firm maximum limit, ever, under any conditions. And I haven't shot past 500 since spring, as I'm sort of focused on getting my kids up to speed now.

My oldest recently got qualified to shoot past 500 at the local range (we can shoot to 500 from home here) and I am hoping next week to spend some time with her at 600 and 750. I highly doubt we even consider 1000-1250 any time soon.

It's an FFP scope and, for hunting purposes, I cannot bring myself to rapidly shoot with that tiny crosshair hanging in my FOV. I've been working more with dot sights on my handguns so maybe having a full crosshair in the FOV isn't as important as it used to be. It never bothers me on the range, but when an animal is there, it just messes with me. Also the focus seems "fussy" unlike most other scopes.

The 6mm is SUPER accurate. I haven't really heated it up and shot long strings with it, but it'll hammer a dime at a hundred with its favorite handload. Eastern hunting accuracy has been my only concern and eastern seasons are one or two shots, generally inside 100 yards so heating it up has just never been a thing.

My thoughts on optics were to grab a fixed power SWFA, slap it on the 6 and start working on a 100+gr bullet load. I'm not sure what twist it has, but 95 gr bullets just shoot out of it.

This isn't for hunting purposes. It's for "fun" and to be better with a gun, so maybe a little for hunting but I'm not looking to shoot animals at half a mile or whatever.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Ill share my path so far. Not saying right or best, its just what ive chosen to do and i made a couple of mistakes that ill share as well.

I got a Savage 110 Tactical in 6.5 Creed for a few reasons:
1) it was available in LH, yes im correct-handed
2) good rep for accuracy
3) it has a heavier barrel profile
4) it has a modular stock with spacers for LOP and interchangeable cheek risers
5) wide/flatish forend
6) good aftermarket support(not as much as Rem 700 and Tikka but maybe 3rd place behind those)
7) comes with AICS mag so I can have 10 rds in a mag thats available most places
8) 6.5 Creed is cheap and widely available in a wide range of options
9) I got it for a bit over $700 with transfer and shipping
10) barrel is threaded so I can add a brake or suppressor


My first and worst mistake is getting a Bushnell Match Pro 6-24x50 scope, i got blinded by the price. There is nothing wrong with the scope, it does exactly what it should but its marketed and built toward rimfire and doesnt fit my purpose because:
1) IMO the center dot is too big. Even at 100yds it mostly covers most bullseyes.
2) it doesnt have a zero stop
3) its total elevation adjustment is like 18 mils. With the 20MOA rail, I have enough to get to 1000, but not a whole lot more(according to ballistics app & how much travel I have from zero).
4) because it doesnt have typical LR elevation range, it doesnt count revs on the turret.

Also, the modular stock is far better in theory than practice. It still has a traditional hunting grip angle so its not terribly comfortable on the wrist to shoot for long. "adjusting" the stock requires removing screws, having different length screws depending on which spacer/s you use and you have to remove the butt pad to change the cheek riser. So once its fitted to you, its OK. Getting it there can be a pain.

So I am looking at a better scope, im leaning towards an Athlon Helos 4.5-20x50 or 6-24x56

I also plan to put it into a MDT XRS stock/chassis which will give me better ergonomics and more convenient adjustability.

IMO the trigger is fine, one tiny, itty bitty, little notch of creep, then crisp break. Not great, but ive felt ALOT worse.

I havent shot past 250 because thats all we have close.

I hope that helps as you look at your options.

Obviously, budget is a concern until I hit that powerball or get that lucrative cartel job...

As I mentioned in a previous comment, this isn't for a hunting gun. I think the 6mm is going to be my range queen.

I looked at the Rokstok and a couple of chassis systems. I'm likewise "correct" handed but the 6 is a righty action. No biggie at the range.

I think optics needs to be my first real upgrade. This scope could be as old as I am and, well, you wouldn't be using binos from the 70s.... A SWFA fixed power seems about right for my purposes. I have all the time in the world to get settled, get aligned and get aimed in.

Rifle already has a Timney because it did the "Walker trigger thing" and has scared the piss out of several folks, myself included. I took the time to really tune it nicely and it's super crisp.

 

[Steve300xcw]

1k yards is a good time. Everything seems to get harder at around 800yrds for me.

It is really easy to start cranking dials and lobbing rounds way out there. I think a guy would be much better off though. If he reined it in, and stuck to say 600 yrds until he had things figured out. Then bump it out a couple hundred yards an figure it out again. Walk before you run kinda thing.

I'd load up some hornady 105gr bthp's in that 6mm and go learn some shit. They are cheap, accurate, and will most likely run just fin in your rifle.

I dunno how old you are or how shitty your eyes. My dad just plain cannot see the reticle in a swfa 10x. That was a problem we were not expecting.

 

[TaperPin]

That sounds like you will be having some new fun. The 6mm will be a perfect range gun. For a range/plinking/coyote/rock shooting rifle, my favorite scope is a fixed 12x, but many guys do just fine with 10x or even 16x. I have a fixed 20x and it’s a little too fiddly for the closer targets and I may have shot the wrong gong a time or two taking fast shots. lol