Did it make the jump?

[JohnJohnson]

You’ve investigated and found that information to be false?

What? That's not how any of this works. They have no proof, nor did they try to find proof of, the hunters eating CWD-infected deer meat. So they can't say that the hunters were exposed to CWD-infected deer meat. It's not up to the reader to prove an evidenceless claim wrong what does that even mean lol

 

[Fordguy]

Just for reference:

Chronic Wasting Disease Agents in Nonhuman Primates - PMC

Chronic wasting disease is a prion disease of cervids. Assessment of its zoonotic potential is critical. To evaluate primate susceptibility, we tested monkeys from 2 genera. We found that 100% of intracerebrally inoculated and 92% of orally ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I did see a scholarly article (years ago, may have referenced it in a college paper) about a study where macaques developed cwd after cerebral injection but not orally (consumption of cwd positive venison). However, biological substances from the cwd positive macaque were then able to infect other macaques.

We (humans) don't all have the same genotype, and I don't believe that all strains of CWD are the same. When infectious agents reproduce or multiply there is a risk that they will change or mutate. A small mutation is likely to enable transmission, but how likely is that? I really don't know.
Some people are probably more susceptible to cross species infection than others. (Like squirrel monkeys vs. macaques in the study). Based on the fact that no proven cases of cervid-to-human prion disease transmission exist thus far, I'd guess that the risk is minimal. You can minimize the risk even more by having your animals tested.
Be a rebel and ignore the recommendations if you want lol. After all, there are no guarantees in life.
From my point of view, It would really suck to be the first documented human case of CWD.
Based on the article that is the subject of the thread, it doesn't appear that the two individuals in question are "documented" either, at least not at this point.

 

[willfrye027]

What? That's not how any of this works. They have no proof, nor did they try to find proof of, the hunters eating CWD-infected deer meat. So they can't say that the hunters were exposed to CWD-infected deer meat. It's not up to the reader to prove an evidenceless claim wrong what does that even mean lol

I don’t see anything in the case report that would claim to “prove” they ate CWD infected deer meat. Where in the text do you feel they used too strong of language? Maybe in the objective where they suggest “exposure”? They pretty clearly describe in the methods section what they mean by exposure. Sure it would be nice if they tested the venison, could be listed in limitations, but again this is just a case report. Genuinely curious, I am not being argumentative. You seem or claim to have more experience with medical literature than I do.

Abstract​

Objective:​

This study presents a cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) cases after exposure to chronic wasting disease (CWD)-infected deer, suggestive of potential prion transmission from CWD-infected deer to humans.

Background:​

CJD is a rapidly progressive central nervous system disorder caused by misfolded prion proteins. CWD, a prion disease prevalent in North American deer, has raised concerns due to its possible link to CJD. Although no conclusive evidence of cross-species prion transmission exists, vigilance for such cases is crucial for public health.

Design/Methods:​

Not applicable.

Results:​

In 2022, a 72-year-old man with a history of consuming meat from a CWD-infected deer population presented with rapid-onset confusion and aggression. His friend, who had also eaten venison from the same deer population, recently died of CJD, raising concerns about a potential link between CWD and human prion disease. Despite aggressive symptomatic treatment of seizures and agitation, the patient’s condition deteriorated and he died within a month of initial presentation. The diagnosis was confirmed postmortem as sporadic CJD with homozygous methionine at codon 129 (sCJDMM1). The patient’s history, including a similar case in his social group, suggests a possible novel animal-to-human transmission of CWD. Based on non-human primate and mouse models, cross-species transmission of CJD is plausible. Due to the challenge of distinguishing sCJDMM1 from CWD without detailed prion protein characterization, it is not possible to definitively rule out CWD in these cases. Although causation remains unproven, this cluster emphasizes the need for further investigation into the potential risks of consuming CWD-infected deer and its implications for public health.

Conclusions:​

Clusters of sporadic CJD cases may occur in regions with CWD-confirmed deer populations, hinting at potential cross-species prion transmission. Surveillance and further research are essential to better understand this possible association.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I don’t see anything in the case report that would claim to “prove” they ate CWD infected deer meat. Where in the text do you feel they used too strong of language? Maybe in the objective where they suggest “exposure”? They pretty clearly describe in the methods section what they mean by exposure. Sure it would be nice if they tested the venison, could be listed in limitations, but again this is just a case report. Genuinely curious, I am not being argumentative. You seem or claim to have more experience with medical literature than I do.

Sure, my main exception to their wording/framing is they have no proof the two men were exposed to CWD infected deer at all. Making that assumption purely off of CWD-rates in the local deer population is irresponsible. There is no concrete evidence at all that they were ever exposed to CWD in any form, so saying they were exposed without using any qualifying language in the abstract isn't kosher.

It feels weird to quibble on wording but that really is the root of the issue and why biologists are having to issue statements about the study right now. There would be no uproar at all if their abstract didn't use that wording (in my opinion at least). And I want to emphasize that this is mostly on the attending for not having the first author change the wording during the editing process. I'm not necessarily expecting a med student to be attuned to this stuff.

 

[Stalker69]

I have meat in my freezer for 5-6 years. double wrapped. Not freezer burnt at all.
You think any prion is surviving ???

Yes they are, they are not living organisms, not a virus or any thing like that. They can’t be “ killed “ They can remain “ active” in the soil for ever basically. They disinfected the holding pens, and soil with bleach, and left them empty for years. Once deer were introduced again, they eventually tested positive also.

 

[LongWayAround]

I don’t see anything in the case report that would claim to “prove” they ate CWD infected deer meat. Where in the text do you feel they used too strong of language? Maybe in the objective where they suggest “exposure”? They pretty clearly describe in the methods section what they mean by exposure. Sure it would be nice if they tested the venison, could be listed in limitations, but again this is just a case report. Genuinely curious, I am not being argumentative. You seem or claim to have more experience with medical literature than I do.

Abstract​

Objective:​

This study presents a cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) cases after exposure to chronic wasting disease (CWD)-infected deer, suggestive of potential prion transmission from CWD-infected deer to humans.

Background:​

CJD is a rapidly progressive central nervous system disorder caused by misfolded prion proteins. CWD, a prion disease prevalent in North American deer, has raised concerns due to its possible link to CJD. Although no conclusive evidence of cross-species prion transmission exists, vigilance for such cases is crucial for public health.

Design/Methods:​

Not applicable.

Results:​

In 2022, a 72-year-old man with a history of consuming meat from a CWD-infected deer population presented with rapid-onset confusion and aggression. His friend, who had also eaten venison from the same deer population, recently died of CJD, raising concerns about a potential link between CWD and human prion disease. Despite aggressive symptomatic treatment of seizures and agitation, the patient’s condition deteriorated and he died within a month of initial presentation. The diagnosis was confirmed postmortem as sporadic CJD with homozygous methionine at codon 129 (sCJDMM1). The patient’s history, including a similar case in his social group, suggests a possible novel animal-to-human transmission of CWD. Based on non-human primate and mouse models, cross-species transmission of CJD is plausible. Due to the challenge of distinguishing sCJDMM1 from CWD without detailed prion protein characterization, it is not possible to definitively rule out CWD in these cases. Although causation remains unproven, this cluster emphasizes the need for further investigation into the potential risks of consuming CWD-infected deer and its implications for public health.

Conclusions:​

Clusters of sporadic CJD cases may occur in regions with CWD-confirmed deer populations, hinting at potential cross-species prion transmission. Surveillance and further research are essential to better understand this possible association.

I haven't read the originally linked article or case study. From reading your summary post, I don't see how they are making this jump.

So the guy's friend dies of CJD. Did the first person mentioned die of CJD?

"Had a history of consuming deer from an infected area" doesn't exactly inspire fear in me. How many deer did this guy actually eat?

"Is plausible" is not good enough reason to make a scene out of.

 

[Cedarsavage]

Election year again already

 

[yfarm]

Journals of national medical specialty organizations publish abstracts of presentations and poster exhibits of the organizations annual meetings. This abstract in the Journal neurology is merely that (see supplement in the title). This is not a study in the sense of normal research. I don’t believe this would show up in pubmed search for peer reviewed research. I fault the meeting committee reviewers for even accepting the poster without confirmatory data from each patient from csf or brain biopsy. Clearly the senior author failed in the editing process as well. Doubt this would even be accepted for publication as a case report given no confirmatory data linking the two patients. Must of been a slow year for poster exhibits at the meeting.

 

[Dos XX]

I would check them for lead exposure.

 

[long hunter]

Perhaps they need a bit of lead exposure if you catch the drift.

 

[willfrye027]

.

It feels weird to quibble on wording but that really is the root of the issue and why biologists are having to issue statements about the study right now. There would be no uproar at all if their abstract didn't use that wording (in my opinion at least). And I want to emphasize that this is mostly on the attending for not having the first author change the wording during the editing process. I'm not necessarily expecting a med student to be attuned to this stuff.

id say that’s a fair criticism. The clickbait kind of language in the abstract is weak..also unfortunately pretty common these days. I’d blame the journal editors for punishing it like that.

The bigger issue is the media, I don’t even know where to start there.

 

[willfrye027]

I haven't read the originally linked article or case study. From reading your summary post, I don't see how they are making this jump.

So the guy's friend dies of CJD. Did the first person mentioned die of CJD?

"Had a history of consuming deer from an infected area" doesn't exactly inspire fear in me. How many deer did this guy actually eat?

"Is plausible" is not good enough reason to make a scene out of.

The media has made a scene out of a pretty obscure and low level case report..I still think it’s interesting and i agree with the authors about more surveillance and testing.

 

[Boarmaster]

I will take my chances with venison I kill and process myself. Versus processed foods and mystery meat.

 

[EastHumboldt]

I think every one int the western US should stop harvesting deer and elk immediately. Especially in NV. I will take one for the team and continue to hunt NV and we can all see if anything happens to me. (Besides regularly filling tags with big ol’ muleys…. ) I would be willing to do the same with elk.

 

[Short Track]

Yes they are, they are not living organisms, not a virus or any thing like that. They can’t be “ killed “ They can remain “ active” in the soil for ever basically. They disinfected the holding pens, and soil with bleach, and left them empty for years. Once deer were introduced again, they eventually tested positive also.

That's actually scary. It's amazing something can tolerate that environment. I will try to test my next harvest. But I usually hunt out west, and I'm on the east coast.

 

[Short Track]

Can you test meat after it's butchered ? Frozen for months ... years ...

 

[Stalker69]

Can you test meat after it's butchered ? Frozen for months ... years ...

No

 

[Customweld]

CDC statement:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/ot...n&cvid=7b2065dfa03b443b943c156c3c999bd2&ei=12

 

[Short Track]

Question:
If it's non-detectable in meat, why not eat the meat ????

 

[Johnny Tyndall]

Question:
If it's non-detectable in meat, why not eat the meat ????

I'm no expert, but from what I understand it can be detected in meat but the state labs generally won't test it. My guess is that the level is so low and/or the sample prep and test is such a hassle that they don't bother with it. I have read papers that plainly state the prion is found in meat, and throughout the animal in general.