Dial vs BDC Reticle vs Holdover

[dneaster3]

Some shooters dial in every shot
Some use BDC or Christmas tree reticles
Some hunters use a duplex and “just hold higher up”

All are legitimate answers some of the time.

When do you switch from one technique to another?

 

[Shō[t]gun]

Its simple, your list is in descending experience level.

 

[Harvey_NW]

When do you switch from one technique to another?

I believe it's dependent upon your claimed MER, the precision of your system, and your ability. I would say out to 300 with a MPBR zero and a 2 MOA or less system you don't need to anything extensive. 3-500 is doable with a BDC and a level on a decent system, 500 or more I think there's more factors to account for and elevation needs to be dialed, and precision needs to be proven consistent.

 

[sickles107]

Here's an example of my 6 creed at 600yd with the only variable being density altitude.

High alpine early season, 10,000 ft, 60 degrees, roughly 12500 density altitude. Calculator calls for 3.3 mils, 71 inches.

Low country late season, 2000 ft, 10 degrees, roughly -1000 density altitude. Calculator calls for 3.8 mils, 81 inches.

 

[hereinaz]

Dialing introduces the least amount of possible error. Error creates misses.

Go from there…

 

[TaperPin]

I tend to think there’s a natural limit to simple holdover. If someone hunts with a 250-300 yard zero, the rifle takes care of itself on deer size game out to 325-350 yards. From there it drops quickly and guessing holdover to around 450 yards is where a lot of hunters I’ve been with start to have problems. With a rangefinder guessing holdover to 500 is doable, but barely.

I have zero time behind the trigger with complex reticles so all I will say about them is when the buck of a lifetime steps out and it’s hard to remember your own name, it leaves a very large window for miscalculation. With a lot of training, even complicated things can become second nature, but dialing has to be less prone to nerves.

 

[dneaster3]

Thanks for jumping in the discussion, gents.

MPBR, put your crosshairs on the animal, pull the trigger is the right way to hunt from zero out to X yards. I've seen several people in person and many in videos fiddle-fart around with dials and zoom rings and bipods and rangefinders to the point that the animal could or did walk away unharmed. A hunter needs to be prepared and know when to just shoot now

I also know that it is very easy to miss high or low at just a few hundred yards simply by not knowing or thinking through what the external ballistics for the shot are. Add in the nerves and time pressure as @TaperPin brought up, and that distance shrinks even further. There comes a point where a practitioner needs to open up the whole toolbox.

I guess another way of looking at this is an individual's definition of when it becomes "long range hunting".
One could define that not strictly in yardage, per se, but as the distance at which the techniques and skills change.
Inside of X is "close range" because I just aim and shoot.
Beyond Y is "long range" because I need to use the rangefinder / kestrel / bipod / mils / etc.

What ranges do fill in for X and Y?

 

[Marshfly]

I think a scope that dials is 100% the way to go. You need to memorize the first few hundred yard settings at normal temp and elevation where you hunt. 200-400 yards just doesn't change that much as DA changes for any normal hunting rifle. Memorize those or tape that chart to the objective lens of the scope and use an app for the rest or when you have time.

Holding over and guessing is how you miss. Been there, done that, missed the animal. Replaced the scope with something I can dial.

 

[Shō[t]gun]

I've seen several people in person and many in videos fiddle-fart around with dials and zoom rings and bipods and rangefinders to the point that the animal could or did walk away unharmed. A hunter needs to be prepared and know when to just shoot now

Those people obviously weren't familiar with their setup. Do your research ahead of time, not on the mountain. Plug all your data into the ballistic computer and make yourself a chart that eliminates the unnecessary fluff. Practice using that data and see how it works for you, then decide for yourself when you need to use the computer crutch to make an accurate shot. MPBR works fine for some people, but I've never felt good about POI being on the outskirts of the vitals. Its just as easy to work your reticle up the body out to 300y if you know your drops for quick shots.
There is no solution to make long shots quick AND precise other than practice. Even then, your shot time and max range will vary based on the conditions. Ballistic computers have wounded more deer/elk than any infamous bullet/cartridge in history. Idiots used to cleanly miss animals, now they get bad hits.

 

[RWT]

90+% of animals I shoot MPBR works. If you practice enough and have actually shot targets at distance and know your hold over then you eliminate another 5% of the animals shot. The remaining 5% dialing would be best. Then again if I am at a distance that I need to dial, then the animal probably doesn’t know I am there.

I am comfortable using reticle holdover to 500yards. After that I should dial or get closer and be a better hunter. I say that because I do shoot out to 500 in practice and know my hold overs on my specific reticle. I am set up for MPBR with the rifles I hunt with And practice with them year round. I shoot ROM 300-400 rounds per year from hunting rifles. I shoot another 1000+ from my AR and pistols. I don’t dial and don’t want to while I hunt. I have dialed and decided that for me that is best left to certain rifles that are range/bench guns only.

 

[Macintosh]

There are several threads on this topic from the past few months with pages of replies if you search around. I think one is “distance to start dialing”. They always devolve into a MPBR vs dialing pissing match, but there is plenty there to sink your teeth into to try for yourself.

Personally, on the rifle I take west, I have a 100 yard zero, a mil-dot ffp reticle, and a dial. I point and shoot to about 150, 160-300 I have the option of an easy holdover using the reticle—accurate at any magnification because its ffp—OR if I have time I can dial to be more precise. Past 300ish I am not personally able to be as precise as I’d like with the reticle between dots, so thats a dial-only shot for me. I have never had a shot opportunity at over about 200 yards where I DIDNT have time to dial, so this has worked well for me and I'm not particularly concerned with being super-fast at these mid ranges. If I found myself in a situation where I wanted to use a MPBR setup, I just dial .4mils and walk around like that, and can point and shoot to about 250+, or use my standard dope to dial past that.

 

[longrange13]

Some shooters dial in every shot
Some use BDC or Christmas tree reticles
Some hunters use a duplex and “just hold higher up”

All are legitimate answers some of the time.

When do you switch from one technique to another?

I don’t think you should ever hold over on an animal or dial on an animal without first proving everything out on the shooting range. If on an extreme budget basic holdover reticles can work okay but likely to 500 and under.

I think the best solution is shooting long range ballistics and have a bdc turret cut. You will be accurate in different conditions to 500 yards and can get shots off super quick when opportunities are fleeting. Beyond that using a kestrel is ideal to calculate solutions. Most turrets these days are available to be engraved with yardage and moa/mills. It is well worth spending the money on a good optic.

 

[JohnJohnson]

I've seen several people in person and many in videos fiddle-fart around with dials and zoom rings and bipods and rangefinders to the point that the animal could or did walk away unharmed. A hunter needs to be prepared and know when to just shoot now

If they're fiddling with their stuff that long they're not practiced enough with it and it's a good thing they didn't end up shooting. Unpracticed people "just shooting now" at anything over 250 yards is bad and should be discouraged.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Folks making things way too complicated...

The time available to get a high probability shot off with or without having to range the target should typically dictate the method used.

Take the same animal 325 yards away and a WKR-worthy B&C animal is about go to bye bye for good...

The self-proclaimed gods, sorry WKRs, are unlikely to get their rifle un-shouldered, setup their portable weather station to get their various environmental values, calculate their shooting solution, get stable, acquire their target in their crosshairs, chamber a round, dial (or use holdovers) and take the shot ibefore that B&C animal tells them to go bugger themselves and walks away for good.

Now those same self-professed gods would actually increase their odds significantly by just un-shouldering their rifle, chambering a round, getting reasonably steady, and taking the shot. They preach Kraft drills and massive volumes of shooting from various positions so this is not necessarily a low odds approach.

I do love the humor in this. The self-professed elite and their superior skills and knowledge leave them holding nothing but their bruised ego. Yet the dolts and their low-skill approach has them going home with their B&C animal.

Folks should learn to use all available methods to them and use what makes the most sense for any given situation.

 

[longrange13]

Yup be practiced with your weapon whatever you choose and be fast. The big bucks don’t stick around long.

 

[sambo3006]

I employ two different methods for different applications.
I have a 257 Weatherby that, when zeroed at 300 yards is 2" high at 100 yards and 7" low at 400 yards at my normal hunting elevation of roughly 1000 ft asl in Missouri. I normally hunt the edges of crop fields, and shots are rarely over 450 yards. I pre-range field edges and I know that inside of 400 yards I can basically aim center of the chest and make a first round hit on a quick shot.
When I hunt out west, I use a rifle with high BC bullets, a first focal plane mil dot reticle for wind hold and a turret for elevation. I verify my drops by shooting at the hunting elevation, keep it set at a 250 yard zero for quick shots and will dial elevation for longer shots where I have time to range.
I used to use reticles with BDC style reticles, but they are only accurate at a specific power level, usually maximum setting. I don't like keeping my scope at maximum power and don't trust myself to remember to crank up the scope power for a longer shot if buck fever is kicking in.

 

[Reburn]

Dialing introduces the least amount of possible error. Error creates misses.

Go from there…

This is the way.

 

[WCB]

Or...hear me out. You could use all three!

I shoot mildot scopes mostly. I have dope charts set up.

Zeroed at 100yds (walking around hunting I keep it dialed to 200yds) hold on spine at 300. 350 on top of its back and out much beyond that. Ill probably just use mildots (with 1/2 mil hashes) for hold over out to 450. Then Ill start dialing.

Situational...Deer is feeding at 400 in the open. I'll probably dial. Deer is moving across a wooded hillside and I just spotted it and have maybe seconds to shoot. Ill hold marks on the reticle. Imo if you are shooting much beyond 450 yards dial is necessity and practice dialing and shooting is a major focus.

I've used all three methods but practice with my rifles enough it doesn't take calculations or time to think of the right one in the situation. Experience tells me almost instantly if I have time or not.

 

[longrange13]

Or...hear me out. You could use all three!

I shoot mildot scopes mostly. I have dope charts set up.

Zeroed at 100yds (walking around hunting I keep it dialed to 200yds) hold on spine at 300. 350 on top of its back and out much beyond that. Ill probably just use mildots (with 1/2 mil hashes) for hold over out to 450. Then Ill start dialing.

Situational...Deer is feeding at 400 in the open. I'll probably dial. Deer is moving across a wooded hillside and I just spotted it and have maybe seconds to shoot. Ill hold marks on the reticle. Imo if you are shooting much beyond 450 yards dial is necessity and practice dialing and shooting is a major focus.

I've used all three methods but practice with my rifles enough it doesn't take calculations or time to think of the right one in the situation. Experience tells me almost instantly if I have time or not.

Yes this right here is spot on. Most shooting will be in this 0-400 yard range and you typically don’t have much time. That practice and familiarity is key. Beyond that you typically have time to dial a solution.

 

[Macintosh]

Where and what (and how) are you guys hunting that you dont have time to range and dial for most 350-400 yard shots? I honestly dont think Ive ever NOT had time to dial over about 200 yards. Not saying it won't happen, but my experience, short of getting the wind completely wrong, has been that the “norm” is past about 150 yards the animal rarely even knows I’m there, and Ive typically either had plenty of time to make a shot at those ranges or its been a situation where it was easy to plan ahead and be prepared for a longer shot through a narrower window. It also doesnt take more than a few seconds extra to range and dial for a 300-400 yard shot. A mpbr zero and being fast/simple makes perfect sense to me in some cases, I just havent been so rushed at those mid ranges before, so wondering what the big deal is being so fast there—i’d be curious if you folks are hunting in very different terrain or in a different way that your experience is so different.

Also, the folks talking about environmentals, outside of maybe huge elevation changes like going from 200’ to 6000’ elevation, are not talking about 300-400 yard shots.