defiance vs borden actions

[TURNER208]

Looking to build my first custom rifle. Been looking hard into these two manufacturers for the action. I was wondering if anyone had any pros/cons for one or the other and if anyone has used both and has some first hand experience? Thanks for the help.

 

[JohnJohnson]

What caused you to narrow it down to those two actions specifically, as far as what features you're seeking? Also which Defiance action? There are a lot of them.

I had a bit of hands-on time with a Deviant years ago. It was smooth but they're known for not being very reliable in harsh conditions.

 

[TURNER208]

Honestly had just looked up some reviews of them and a lot of people seemed to like them as well as a lot of custom rifle makers using them. I had been looking at the defiance rebel. Do you have other actions you prefer?

Thanks

 

[BBob]

Jim Borden is a pioneer when it comes to actions and action design. There are very specific reasons for why he builds them the way he does. That said there are tons of good actions out there all with small differences that may or may not make a real difference at all. I’d talk with your rifle builder and ask what they like and why. I own or have owned Borden, BAT, Kelbly, Defiance, Mesa (now Pure Precision), Remington, Pierce, etc… and all have their little quirks and differences. I have preferences as to what I want but that doesn’t mean what I want is better than what you want. IMO you can’t go wrong with a Borden. Defiance has long built great actions too. My preference is usually the BAT but that’s me and for what I want and what I think is important.

FWIW The Pure Precision Summit is $700 right now. If you’re on a budget that could be a good choice.

Something you didn’t state is what magazine type will you be using? There’s a lot of choices there and the action model can make a difference as to what they’ll work with. Some are very specific as to what magazine type they’ll work with or won’t work with.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Honestly had just looked up some reviews of them and a lot of people seemed to like them as well as a lot of custom rifle makers using them. I had been looking at the defiance rebel. Do you have other actions you prefer?

Thanks

Depends on your budget. A Rebel is about $1400 as far as I can tell. If you're spending that money, you should be looking at Impact 737R and Lone Peak Fuzion for two lug actions. They have much better reputations for reliability. The Defiance Rebel seems like it doesn't even have an integral scope base which for the price seems kind of odd. Plus I'm not sure it's one of the Defiance actions that takes prefits.

I personally chose a Lone Peak recently for a build I now have on order. I just didn't want to deal with Impact's trigger hanger since the triggers I use (Huber) are one of the only ones that have difficulties with it.

If you're looking for ideas, I'll link the survey of the top 200 ranked PRS shooters as far as which action they were using in 2023. I am not saying PRS translates perfectly into hunting but still, I personally believe their action choices translate better than other parts of their rifles.

Best Custom Rifle Action: What The Pros Use

I recently surveyed the 200 top-ranked shooters in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) to lea...

precisionrifleblog.com

If you don't want to spend $1400+ on an action that's fine too. Budget options would be Zermatt Origin, ARC Coup De Grace, and Aero Solus.

 

[VirginiaBeach]

Defiance’s reputation for any lack of reliability is from people who order their action super tight fitting like a bank vault because they love that feel and then come out west and shoot in dusty, dirty conditions. Then they will feel the grit in their raceways and complain or try to close the bolt and it’s gunned up. You can order a Defiance exactly how you want it which is awesome. I would give yourself at least 3 thousandths clearance around the bolt.

I shoot a Lone Peak Fuzion and an American Rifle co Archimedes. Never had issues with either and I shoot with a lot of guys who run the defiance ruckus without any issues. I would chat with your gunsmith and make sure whichever action you choose will be appropriate the conditions you plan on hunting and spec it out as such.

 

[BBob]

I would chat with your gunsmith and make sure whichever action you choose will be appropriate the conditions you plan on hunting and spec it out as such.

Exactly

 

[TURNER208]

Thanks for all the info guys. I have heard that Borden's have tight tolerances as well which I had wondered if that would make it bind up bad with dust/debris/snow?

 

[TURNER208]

I'll start looking into some of the others you guys mentioned and chat with my smith.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Thanks for all the info guys. I have heard that Borden's have tight tolerances as well which I had wondered if that would make it bind up bad with dust/debris/snow?

I'll start looking into some of the others you guys mentioned and chat with my smith.

If reliability is a big concern for you and you're not using a Huber/Tubb trigger, just get an Impact. It's the easy button of actions these days. It's known for great feel and extreme reliability. As well as having the largest selection of prefit barrels out of any R700 clone action. It's also in stock a lot of places, whereas the LP Fuzion is a 2-4 month wait at the moment (I'm in the middle of that wait).

 

[BBob]

Thanks for all the info guys. I have heard that Borden's have tight tolerances as well which I had wondered if that would make it bind up bad with dust/debris/snow?

His hunting actions are not tight. The Mountaineer hunting action is available with Borden Bumps which provide a tight fit while in battery but loose when out of battery.

 

[vonb]

Have both and really like both. I can’t say I like one better than the other. However, I do like a one piece bolt. You can’t go wrong with either.

 

[300 win mag]

the previous owner of defiance and jim bordenstarted nesika bay actions.theywere as good or better than 90% of the others.than after a few years they went out on there own with other rifle endeavors,many excellent actions available today.myself i own 2 defiance and 3 bordens.3 other brands.including lone peak and 2 winchester controlled feed.best looking by far to my eye is defiance,but i believe the borden actions are the best push feed made today.jim is brilliant when it comes to details in his actions.also borden rifles are as good as anyone in the 700 clone builds,better than many.

 

[gbflyer]

The Bordens have excellent service. Family owned and operated. Jim has been helpful to me on many occasions, fielding questions that were probably more irritating than not. I’m sure the other you mentioned is fine as well.

 

[Dennis]

I have both a Borden Timberline in a light rifle and a Red Rick Precision (Defiance action) in a long range rifle. Both are in 300 RUM and never had a problem with either of them. Accurate rifles and actions. Jim Borden has done great work on several of my rifle and had some great work done by Red Rock as well.