Dedicated Big Woods Whitetail Setup

[Caseknife]

Ruger 77/44 with a red dot site, I've got a Burris Fastfire on mine, simple, quick, compact. Red dot reflex sight, both eyes open, field of view more or less 180 degrees.

 

[Macintosh]

Being that this is white tail, not elk or a large animal, I don’t follow the idea of fast follow-up shots?

Get yourself a larger caliber that will handle deflections from brush better, and that will not require a second shot on a deer.

Huge emphasis on making ethical shots here. If you can’t take your time and set up an ethical shot, don’t take it.

What’s wrong with a good ol’ 30-06? Or .308?


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To add to the post above, that type of hunting is sort of a regional thing—it seems folks from other parts of the country get tripped up on it pretty often. Without getting into the weeds, an opportunity on a animal standing still often only lasts a split second—which is easy enough to make a good shot—but since “brush busting” is mostly myth and its pretty impossible to see every twig between you and a deer, it can be pretty nice to have a very fast second shot to make sure your first didnt get deflected enough to be a problem. Even with a 30-06 a deer that isnt hit great can go a long way into a swamp, etc. No, a fast second and third shot is not as useful as some make it out to be, but its also not a complete non-issue as some would like it to be. Note the OP is running a bolt gun.

 

[KenLee]

To add to the post above, that type of hunting is sort of a regional thing—it seems folks from other parts of the country get tripped up on it pretty often. Without getting into the weeds, an opportunity on a animal standing still often only lasts a split second—which is easy enough to make a good shot—but since “brush busting” is mostly myth and its pretty impossible to see every twig between you and a deer, it can be pretty nice to have a very fast second shot to make sure your first didnt get deflected enough to be a problem. Even with a 30-06 a deer that isnt hit great can go a long way into a swamp, etc. No, a fast second and third shot is not as useful as some make it out to be, but its also not a complete non-issue as some would like it to be. Note the OP is running a bolt gun.

My Daddy would get on our butts if a deer was still moving and we weren't shooting

 

[Archerichards]

Just seconding the “lever .30 or .35 with low power scope” mentioned above. I have a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem that I use for exactly the hunting you are doing, and have killed a lot of deer with it. Short, manueverable, lightweight. The receiver is thin, so you can wrap your hand around and carry it all day long with ease. I much prefer it to a bolt action.

 

[Shraggs]

Growing up hunting this way its a no brainer that I have a 7600 carbine in 30-06. I’m well aware I don’t need a 3006 to shoot deer, but there’s no way in hell I’m getting rid of this gun. I have had everything on top if it from a 1.5-4.5 weaver, a 2-7 nikon monarch, a 2.5-8 leupold, a 2.5-10 bushnell, and now have a 3-9 trijicon credo.
The one thing that I think is lost on some people about this type of hunting is how important a WIDE field of view is when you lose a brown-on-brown animal in the brush and it reappears, perhaps only 10 yards to one side, but at such a short range that could be a 45° angle from where you were looking. It’s possible it’s just a comfort thing for me, but I have found that a scope with a wider field of view is just easier for me not to lose an animal in the scope, because if I have to pick my head up and re-find it, it’s usually too late. There’s a LOT of folks in this area who are seriously into tracking and hunting big woods, of the ones I know not a single one uses a scope with more than 2.5 X magnification on the lower end. None of them use an objective larger than 44 mm, I don’t think a bigger objective would hurt, but I certainly don’t think based on what I see people successfully using around me, that a big objective is necessary.

My old Weaver 1.5 to 4.5 scope was fine for light gathering. It’s not going to win any awards, but if that old-school inexpensive scope with a 1 inch objective can work 99% of the time at first and last light even in dark, dark hemlocks and cedar swamp, then I would personally not at all be afraid of a good quality low power scope with a 1” or 30mm objective. obviously, some scopes just don’t have a bright image, lens coatings are either crap or have worn off, etc, so make sure you get a decent one, and I think you would be OK if you went this route.

I really do like my Trijicon scope, but I think the particular reticle on mine (std duplex in 3-9 credo) is a little fine and probably requires illumination in some conditions. Also, the field of view at 3X is too narrow for my taste. The cheap Bushnell trophy extreme 2.5-10 that I had on this gun for several years so far is the best scope footprint I’ve used on it. It held zero far better than the Lupold, gathered plenty of light for shooting in dark timber at last light or first thing in the morning, it had plenty of magnification to pick a hole through thick brush, but at 2.5x it was still a pretty wide field of view.

I am currently coveting a 1-6X Trijicon accupoint. The dot reticle looks pretty bold compared to the duplex on my credo, and with the always-on dot seems like that would help against a dark background or any time it’s really busy background. I’d love to get a look through one of these before I bought it, that may not be possible, but this looks like a good contender.

I know a couple folks that are really into tracking that use red dots. I don’t have a ton of experience with them, but certainly the ARs I’ve shot with them it’s no big deal to just bang away at a 8 inch plate at 100 yards. If you have one, cant hurt to try? I don’t think I’ve ever had more than a handful of shot opportunities past 100 yards while hunting this way, and even a shot that long seems extremely rare to me. People use these things to clear dark buildings, I have a hard time thinking that it doesn’t work fine in low light deer hunting.

This is great detail info, I’ve read a lot on those regional methods! Yes I actually remember magazines with printed words!

Late season on a now gone large family farm I would take my lever and slow/sneak thru the bedding. I get the close fleeting opportunities!

I have been using trijcon for a very long time. Currently have 1-4, 1-6, 3-9 as well as swfa in all those. It’s the 80 yards and under with seconds that I favor the red dot set up. Wouldn’t matter platform. Of the one power variable I would choose the trijcon 1-6 creedo, and still prefer ffp mrad with illumination. Definitely the widest and brightest view.

 

[Macintosh]

Ive posted this before, but sometimes the “fast follow up shot” is for this.

 

[Pap89]

I love my new rifles, but I can't beat my good old 30-30 lever...

 

[isItFallYet]

Didn’t read all responses and probably not a popular opinion, but a Browning BAR 18” in .308 cartridge is pretty sweet! Add your scope of choice and go have fun!

 

[StupidLightweight]

OP, great post and solid questions. Sounds like a fast-twist .223 will be everything you want and more. My suggestion is a FightLite SCR (image below is not mine but looks badass). The SCR is an AR-15 that cross-dresses as a traditional rifle. It'll carry better than a standard AR in the brush, be ultra fast to your shoulder, and follow-up shots will always be quicker from a low-recoil semiautomatic. Use 10-round PMAGs. Once you have the lower, you can then build uppers in various calibers. Done.



As for optics, I'd keep it simple and rock a fixed 2.5X Leupy in the lowest rings you prefer, likely Seekins Precision. This will be a trim optic that won't mess with the balance and handling. In low light, it will be superb and so fast on target that deer won't know what hit 'em.

PS: There's a lot of nonsense spewed on this thread.

1. LPVOs are excellent in low light. How someone could argue against this is baffling. I once clearly watched a family of black bears at 11:45 pm in northern Alberta in late may through a Swaro 1-6X. I couldn't see anything with naked eye. Optics, coatings, and magnification are all that matter. Huge objectives only add weight/bulk.

2. The theory of "brush-busting bullets" has been debunked many times over. The only way to ensure a bullet hits the target is to miss brush/grass/branches. Simple as that. A .223 is superior to a .45-70 precisely because there's less bullet to contact a foreign object.

 

[KenLee]

Just seconding the “lever .30 or .35 with low power scope” mentioned above. I have a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem that I use for exactly the hunting you are doing, and have killed a lot of deer with it. Short, manueverable, lightweight. The receiver is thin, so you can wrap your hand around and carry it all day long with ease. I much prefer it to a bolt action.

I don't enjoy paying for 35 rem ammo though

 

[KenLee]

Ive posted this before, but sometimes the “fast follow up shot” is for this.
View attachment 650641

First 4 bullets are to Clear a path

 

[KenLee]

Didn’t read all responses and probably not a popular opinion, but a Browning BAR 18” in .308 cartridge is pretty sweet! Add your scope of choice and go have fun!

That's my answer. I cut both ends

 

[Formidilosus]

I'd be curious what your recommendation would be. 0-80 yds, performance at the edge of legal shooting light, fast developing shot opportunities, moving animals at times (I don't shoot them running, but will shoot them walking).

I don't need versatility here, if I may shoot further I have other rifles that work just fine.

If you want a LPVO the Trijicon 1-6x Credo, NF 1-8x NX8 with FC-DMx reticle, etc. Quite frankly the Vortex Razor 1-6x is spectacular to use for that, if only it was reliable enough. Or an Aimpoint- with magnifier if you thought you wanted or needed some magnification.


(EDIT) I meant the 1-6x Accupoint mil dot reticle for @woods89 hunting. The Credo is a good scope, but the reticle in the Accupoint is better for hunting.

I also haven’t had issues with 2-3x in that type of terrain or hunting, though I see the value in 1x.

 

[woods89]

If you want a LPVO the Trijicon 1-6x Credo, NF 1-8x NX8 with FC-DMx reticle, etc. Quite frankly the Vortex Razor 1-6x is spectacular to use for that, if only it was reliable enough. Or an Aimpoint- with magnifier if you thought you wanted or needed some magnification.

I also haven’t had issues with 2-3x in that type of terrain or hunting, though I see the value in 1x.

Much appreciated.

 

[Macintosh]

@Formidilosus how is the reticle in the sfp credo 1-6? I have been a bit leery of the donut. Also, any reason you did not recommend the accupoint 1-6? Or just for brevity’s sake?

 

[keystone112]

The Credo HX 1-6 offers a different reticle with hold over points in 223 or 308. SFP though.

 

[Lawnboi]

16” 22 creed/77tmk because 77tmk at 3k makes more mess than at 2700.

Iv often thought about trying a LPVO for close range hunting in n similar terrain, but I don’t do enough of it to justify.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus how is the reticle in the sfp credo 1-6? I have been a bit leery of the donut. Also, any reason you did not recommend the accupoint 1-6? Or just for brevity’s sake?

Apologies I meant Accupoint Mil reticle.



@woods89


1-6x Accupoint mil is what I meant.

 

[Unclecroc]

Does PA not allow semi-auto deer rifles, or are the pumps just a tradition/reliability thing?
I have a couple of the Remington pumps, but haven't used them in forever. Folks years ago called them "Amish machine guns".

Amish machine gun is what I call them too. We cannot run a semi rifle for big game. So these are about as close as they come. Big green runs deep around here so everyone that has a 870 or 1187 remmy has a 760 for deer hunting because they practically handle the same.

 

[Buzby]

You like .223, quick follow up shots, and a wide field of view.

An AR15 with an aimpoint is clearly the answer;

Infinite field of view
Follow up shots don’t get any quicker or easier
just so happens to run 223 quite well

Added bonus for being compact, light weight, and practically indestructible