Dedicated Big Woods Whitetail Setup

[StupidLightweight]

You like .223, quick follow up shots, and a wide field of view.

An AR15 with an aimpoint is clearly the answer;

Infinite field of view
Follow up shots don’t get any quicker or easier
just so happens to run 223 quite well

Added bonus for being compact, light weight, and practically indestructible

Minus the Aimpoint, which isn't great in low-light, all good points, Buzby

If only this newfangled AR design you speak of would catch on. Just kidding. It is astonishing how many hunters discount the AR-15. It's ideal for this exact situation.

 

[Buzby]

Minus the Aimpoint, which isn't great in low-light, all good points, Buzby

If only this newfangled AR design you speak of would catch on. Just kidding. It is astonishing how many hunters discount the AR-15. It's ideal for this exact situation.

Shooting both eyes open, it doesn’t have to be great in low light. Fully occluded it still works. Maybe not well at longer distances, but that doesn’t seem to be an issue here.

 

[robtattoo]

Same answer, but .300blk

I've come to love my ARs for low light, thick timber hog busting. I adore my safari sighted old bolt guns, but I'm leaning far closer to my AR for this scenario nowadays. I have 1-4 LVPOs on both my 5.56 & .300blk. Both are cheap Primary Arms numbers with illuminated mid-hash reticles & have so far (touch wood) proven to be bomb proof
Inside of 100yds, with good bullets the .300 is just a modern .30-30

 

[Shraggs]

If you want a LPVO the Trijicon 1-6x Credo, NF 1-8x NX8 with FC-DMx reticle, etc. Quite frankly the Vortex Razor 1-6x is spectacular to use for that, if only it was reliable enough. Or an Aimpoint- with magnifier if you thought you wanted or needed some magnification.


(EDIT) I meant the 1-6x Accupoint mil dot reticle for @woods89 hunting. The Credo is a good scope, but the reticle in the Accupoint is better for hunting.

I also haven’t had issues with 2-3x in that type of terrain or hunting, though I see the value in 1x.

I have both the accupoint (with chevron tho) and creedo. I agree accupoint might be best suited.

What I like about the ffp creedo mrad (not the hx) is at low powers the donut is gone leaving reticle, illum if you like. And if ever you need to stretch distance the exposed turret dials and you can hold wind.

 

[Buzby]

I have both the accupoint (with chevron tho) and creedo. I agree accupoint might be best suited.

What I like about the ffp creedo mrad (not the hx) is at low powers the donut is gone leaving reticle, illum if you like. And if ever you need to stretch distance the exposed turret dials and you can hold wind.

Which creedo do you have?

 

[KenLee]

Amish machine gun is what I call them too. We cannot run a semi rifle for big game. So these are about as close as they come. Big green runs deep around here so everyone that has a 870 or 1187 remmy has a 760 for deer hunting because they practically handle the same.

We were lem hunnert (required pronunciation) peeps in Upstate SC when I was growing up

 

[Shraggs]

Which creedo do you have?

Credo 1-6x24

CR624-C-2900023 (red)

Ffp
30mm tube
Mrad

Btw. Donut doesn’t go away on low power it’s gets very small in other words. Illuminated it’s a single aiming point and close distance like any other ffp.

 

[98XJRC]

Yeah I'd bet there are alot of unhappy folks that want to take their pet ARs

Pa is one of the few states that doesn’t allow semi autos for big game. Here in Pa the week leading up to rifle season is full of guys “sighting in”. The accuracy is abysmal for the majority of rifle hunters here in the east. My biggest issue with it is that most people are more inclined to shoot their AR throughout the year and are therefore more proficient with it. By not allowing semis Pa has taken the most popular rifle out of the woods.

With that said I do believe that semis should have a capacity limit for hunting purposes only. If you can’t put a clean shot on an animal in 1 round much less 5 you don’t belong in the woods trying to kill game.

 

[woods89]

It's fascinating to see the different directions people go with their short range rifles.

I will say, I'm a fan of bolt actions. I get the arguments for ARs but if I do put a setup together for this it will be a bolt gun. I have a ton more familiarity with them.

That doesn't mean an AR isn't a good answer for anyone else, though.

 

[KenLee]

Pa is one of the few states that doesn’t allow semi autos for big game. Here in Pa the week leading up to rifle season is full of guys “sighting in”. The accuracy is abysmal for the majority of rifle hunters here in the east. My biggest issue with it is that most people are more inclined to shoot their AR throughout the year and are therefore more proficient with it. By not allowing semis Pa has taken the most popular rifle out of the woods.

With that said I do believe that semis should have a capacity limit for hunting purposes only. If you can’t put a clean shot on an animal in 1 round much less 5 you don’t belong in the woods trying to kill game.

I have no problem with capacity. 30-40 years ago when I was hungry more often than I like to remember, I had apparently the only dependable Remington 742 with a spare magazine. I kept her clean because often she was the difference between eating or not.
SC DNR didn't care what you did to deer back then because the car insurance companies were all over their ass. I literally stayed up all night one night cleaning deer and cutting enough so I could stuff the unprocessed meat in every frig and cooler I could beg access to.

 

[JBradley500]

I have a couple of 1-6 PSTs and I can see well into the "I might get arrested if I shoot one now" time. The LPVOs suck in the dark myth needs to die.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I keep having a wild hair to use a 14.5” 556 AR with a 5” can and LVPO scope for similar situations. Carrying one for a couple days will probably cure that wild hair though. Otherwise it will be 18” tikka 223 or 6 creed.

It didn’t take me long to realize that I much prefer carrying a bolt action rifle in my hand than an AR15.

 

[Buzby]

I find a lightweight AR carbine a joy to tote around. Even better with a 2pt quick adjust sling.

 

[fshaw]

I hunt in the Adirondack forest which sounds like similar country to what you're hunting. Lots of lever guns here, but more bolt actions. I hunt with a bolt, and mostly always have, but have used levers and understand their nostalgic appeal. I owned a pretty nice 30-06 Model 760 carbine for a few months but never warmed up to it and sold it. I am a licensed hunting guide in NY and Maine, and many of my closest hunting buddies are also Adirondack guides. Nearly all these guys primarily use bolt actions as well. A couple use pumps or a lever occasionally just to change things up, but for the most part they use bolts. If you hunt by yourself, which I do the majority of the time, your one opportunity for the season may last less than 5 seconds. A reliable and accurate rifle that you're confident in and practiced with will likely be the difference between success and failure. Of the other serious Adirondack whitetail hunters I know, about the only ones using semis are guys who hunt deer drives in parties. They love them and do well with them. The majority of the rest use bolts. That said, the best younger tracker that I know is a pump guy at heart but still hunts with a bolt quite a bit and a lever some. A lot of the Maine guys use pumps as well, especially the guys who track deer. The pumps and autos are handy for running deer, no doubt about it. If I remember the OP correctly, you sit or still hunt the majority of time and don't shoot at running deer. To me, given those conditions, a bolt is no handicap. Accuracy that you're confident in is extremely important for those times when you only have a 6-8" path (or less) to the vitals and when the shots are the rare long ones (80 or even 100 yards!).

I am not a fan of small objective scopes if you sit through the last minute of legal shooting light, which in many states is 30 or more minutes after sunset. In the green timber (evergreen stands) this can be pretty dang dark. I have a 3-9x33 Compact on one rifle and a 3-9x40 Vari-x IIC on another, both Leupolds. The 40mm objective is noticeably better during the first or last minutes of the day which are often the most productive of the day. Both are 1" scopes and dialing is of no value to me or any of the guys that I know who hunt this area. Light and reliable, set and forget scopes are key for rifles that will be carried miles and miles, never dialed and shot infrequently, IMHO.

I've shot about 6 deer with a .223 (a few with the 77TMK, very effective, thanks Form and others) and quite a few more with a 6x45, a .243, a 7-08, a .250 Savage, a 7x57, a 7mm Rem. Mag. and a few other cartridges, (my first buck was a pretty good blacktail in CA with a .222 when I was in the Navy) but none with a 30 caliber or larger cartridge. I've taken deer with muzzleloaders using round balls (hate them) and modern saboted bullets. Bullets, other than muzzle loader. have been from 50 to 140gr, most cup and core, some Barne's Xs. I never felt handicapped by any of the cartridges or bullets I used and also don't believe in the brush busting thing. It's been pretty well disproven in a number of studies and in the experiences of experienced hunters I know. That said, I did carry a .308 Montana quite a lot this season, but shot my buck with a 7-08 at under 25 yards. Two of the most successful Adirondack hunters I know also use smaller calibers. One uses a Model 88 Winchester in .243 that he stocked with a piece of local bird's eye maple that he sawed on his own mill many years ago. It's a beautiful rifle with the pistol grip cap made from the crown of an impressive whitetail shed. Last thing I knew his preferred handload was with an 85gr HPBT Sierra. The other hunter has killed a pretty amazing amount of deer with a beautiful old Model 317 H&R (worth Googling) in 223 long before it was thought of as a capable deer cartridge. It's only one of a number of bolts he hunts with. Many of those deer with the .223 were shot with U.S. Military surplus 5.56 ball ammo. He said he was surprised at how effective it was on deer. He served on the ground in Vietnam so I'm guessing he had some experience with it.

With that all said, like most people, I'd recommend what I use, an accurate, reliable and lighter weight bolt action rifle with a 3-9x40 set and forget scope that's reasonable light weight. I don't believe that 3x will ever hinder you on close shots, and 9x is nice if you have to look one over at a distance to see or evaluate horns. In country where a deer can get out of sight in two jumps, I like an exit wound from a bullet that still does plenty of internal damage. Many cup and core bullets (in medium or heavier weight for caliber) do this in larger calibers. Smaller calibers are obviously more difficult to achieve this with. I'm working on a load with the 75gr Gold Dot to use in my .223 Montana (1 in 9 twist) to try and achieve his.

A last recommendation I'd make would be that instead of obsessing on the rifle, which I also have a tendency to do, obsess on becoming an expert on the area where you hunt and the deer that live there. Getting out before season to look for deer will get you in better physical and mental shape and help you acclimate to seeing things in the woods more quickly. It also helps you move more quietly in the woods when he season starts and you'll be more prepared on day 1 of the season and all other days that follow. The mast crop in my area varies greatly from year to year and knowing what food is available helps you make a plan on where to locate or intercept deer as the season progresses. There's no logging in our state forest so mast crop can be key in any given year, especially if it's limited. It is of much greater importance to hunting success than the rifle I'm carrying. I don't do enough of this myself, but next year.......

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope that I don't come across as thinking I know it all, or that my way is THE way. I've been at this for over a half century and I try to learn something new every time I go out. So far that goal hasn't been difficult to achieve.

Good luck to you.

Frank

 

[fshaw]

I went back and reread your OP. It'd be worth buying a box of 77grTMK, bullets or cartridges, to try in your 9 twist rifle. My Montana is a 9 twist and shoots them well with Varget. Some 9 twist barrels will. Also, if you're packing in .5-2 miles, if you don't bone out your deer, and if your state allows it, I recommend learning how to do it. Once you carry one out a half mile or further you'll never drag another one that far again.

 

[woods89]

I went back and reread your OP. It'd be worth buying a box of 77grTMK, bullets or cartridges, to try in your 9 twist rifle. My Montana is a 9 twist and shoots them well with Varget. Some 9 twist barrels will. Also, if you're packing in .5-2 miles, if you don't bone out your deer, and if your state allows it, I recommend learning how to do it. Once you carry one out a half mile or further you'll never drag another one that far again.

Oh I tried this! My rifle doesn't like them.

I've been boning out or quartering deer since 2014, I think? It's the way to go.

And I absolutely agree with your thoughts on scouting, etc. I've hiked likely hundreds of miles in the last 10 years here, and really enjoy the process of reading sign and figuring things out.

The rifle's just a detail, however, if I'm going to do this for another 30 years, I'd like to optimize.

 

[fshaw]

Oh I tried this! My rifle doesn't like them.

I've been boning out or quartering deer since 2014, I think? It's the way to go.

And I absolutely agree with your thoughts on scouting, etc. I've hiked likely hundreds of miles in the last 10 years here, and really enjoy the process of reading sign and figuring things out.

The rifle's just a detail, however, if I'm going to do this for another 30 years, I'd like to optimize.

Absolutely. I have 2 Kimber Montana’s , one in 223 and one in 308. For a production gun I think they are pretty close to perfect for what you’re doing. I bought the 308 used and the 223 from a dealer who’d had it a while. Both have 3-9x33 Leupold Compacts set in talley rings. Both came from tips here from mt WTB posts. The Kimber Hunter would also be worth a look. I’ve never owned a Tikka, they just don’t appeal to me for short action cartridges. Blasphemy I know. I handled a Howa Carbon Stalker in 7-08 at a local gun store, very light and trim. Action was a bit rough but I read that they smooth up. I’m not a DBM guy, if you are they’re worth a look. That would be a stopper for me unless a replacement floor plate was available.

To me, if you hunt in all weather, the perfect rifle for what you’re doing is a synthetic stocked short action bolt rifle at 6.5 pounds or less with scope. Walnut is nice if you don’t hunt in the rain but a bit heavier. Stainless is nice but not necessary. For me the scope would have a 30-40mm objective. I’ve had no problems with Leupolds and Talley lightweight rings and will continue using them until I do. I’ve fallen with my rifles a number of times and never had a noticeable shift in impact. Caliber of your choice based on what shots you’re willing to take. Common cartridges make ammo and components easier. My next rifle will be a Howa Mini 6.5 Grendel with a Stocky’s or Pendlteton stock and JO floor plate. It will be scoped with a 3-9x33 Leupold Compact or Ultralight using Talley rings. I have a 6x45 and a couple 243s which cover the 6ARC/CM territory.

I’m 67 and want to do some multi-day bivy hunting in the big woods before I get too old. The Mini Grendel or one of my Montanas will probably go along. Although, I did build a 7-08 custom rifle a few years on a Model 7 action; lightened and fluted bolt (Kampfeld), 21” fluted Hart #3 barrel at 21”, Bansner High Tech stock in ADL configuration, Jewell trigger, etc. It was built by a gunsmith that competes and places in short range benchrest and is a legit .75” shooter. It weighs about 6.5 pounds with a Leupold 3-9x33 Compact scope in Talley lightweights. It has earned the right to go along. Decisions, decisions.

So many choices. But with today’s components and bullets available, it’s hard to make a bad one when it’s all said and done.

Life’s short, have fun.

Frank