Decker Diamond Hitch

[bisblue]

Hey folks,
I watched someone at a clinic tie a Decker diamond hitch, but I can't remember how to tie the hitch or find the same hitch online or in Smoke Elsner's book or Joe Back's book. He was using a rope on each side of the Decker and tied a diamond hitch on top of each pannier. I'm new to packing with mules, but was a climbing guide and climbing ranger, so did a fair bit of knots there. I really love a video or step by step guide so I can do it repeatedly until I can burn it into my brain.
I did find this box hitch using a Decker from Mile High Outfitters, that looks like it would be good.
I'm having to get down constantly to navigate burned bridges and cut out logs to assess fire damaged trails for work, so I end up getting in my panniers alot for the saw and saw kit.

 

[Jason Snyder]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with it?

Nice looking mules.

 

[bisblue]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish with it?

Nice looking mules.

I liked the way it held down the top of the pannier. Also I just want to find an example of how to do it because I can't seem to find it anywhere, but I can seemingly find every other hitch known to man.

 

[yycyak]

Any chance you mean "double diamond hitch"?

That's the only one I can think of that winds up with a diamond on each side of the panniers.

 

[Wrench]

I had some packers trying to tie that 30 years ago. After a few flops, I grabbed my motorcycle tie down and threw a quick hitch and asked if we could get uo the mountain before dark.

Thanks for spurring the memory.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I liked the way it held down the top of the pannier. Also I just want to find an example of how to do it because I can't seem to find it anywhere, but I can seemingly find every other hitch known to man.

When we used soft panniers and needed to get in and out of them, we never covered the top of them. Just down up the buckles on the lids. You can use your sling rope and make a crows foot if you’re worried about them flopping around.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I can't help you with that one. I use a double diamond if I have a top load. It balances out the pack and counters flopping if We have to cross things like logs, creeks or ditches.

If I'm pulling saws and various gear out of my panniers to saw my way up a trail, I normally use my canvas panniers with three straps that have hooks to connect onto the decker arches.

I have used pack boxes with leather straps to connect to the arches for packing tools that are frequently used like axes and pulaskies.

If you are are looking for stability and access at the same time, a lash cinch can stabilize the panniers or boxes and still give you access with a couple half hitches.

 

[mntnguide]

Why arent you just tucking your saw under ropes on the outside of your pack? You can use a lash rope and tie and actual diamond on your load, then just tuck the saw under that rope anywhere and its right there at all times to grab in a matter of seconds. That is what I do with my lead animal and my Silky saw at all times. . tuck it in the panniers with the corner open so you can grab it in and out. I worked for Mile High many years ago in the Frank, and we did a lot of hitches with top loads, but none of them make getting into your loads any easier with the rope being used. As much as i love deckers for how they carry loads and protect an animal, a simple diamond hitch with a lash rope on pack boxes is a very simple load thats easy to get in and out of, and you can tuck things under the ropes on the outside.

 

[Pony Soldier]

With that in mind - If I need a big- wood chainsaw and a small -wood saw, I take a pack horse and panniers. Lately I have evolved into a stihl 170 on a leather strap hung over the saddlehorn. A small stihl can of gas and another with bar oil or a quart jug in my saddle bag will give me miles of function for a days worth of work.

 

[yfarm]

That video does a good job of demonstrating the double diamond. When I went to packer school I wished I had seen this first, was confused about the end product while tying it. Seems straight forward now.
Manty(mantie) vs tarp.

 

[bisblue]

Thanks everyone, I actually ran into the gentleman today and got the rundown. He had a line on each side of the Decker, started the diamond on top, then used the line hanging to go into the cinch ring and back up into the diamond. We added a box hitch for more stability. Hopefully that made sense.
I'm in the unique situation that I'm packing a bigger saw kit for work because I lost all of my employees this spring including my trail crew. We also had 140 miles of trail burn last year on the half of the forest I cover. My days with animals involves constant on and off in dirty, hot fire scars to assess and triage trail damage before my conservation crews arrive. If I'm not cutting out sections to assess further down, we're bushwacking around burned bridges and other infrastructure I'm recording specs of to chase finding to replace it.
I'm packing a Stihl 300 electric saw and a pile of batteries, chaps, wedges, etc but some days I just can't cut enough solo in a day to make real headway.
I think my favorite setup might just be the box hitch from mile high for packing the saw and having access, since I'm constantly in the pannier. But I see where the diamond would be great with a top load.

 

[doverpack12]

The decker diamond is in George Bettas articles/Book from Western Hunter. I’ve never seen it anywhere else.
It’s essentially a basket hitch with your decker sling ropes, BUT instead of the horizontal rope or one running parallel with the animal holding the pannier/box on you put it over your top pack. Then the basket rope still goes behind the pannier and tie off like a normal basket hitch after going around the pannier. What I’ve seen the ropes do not twist around eachother like other diamonds. I can snap a picture from George’s book if need be.

@bisblue
You could maybe get the horizontal rope on top the pannier then basket but it’s not doing much for you at that point. If you don’t have a top pack then there are better hitches. If just tying down the panniers a little I would just lash cinch around them once or twice with a shorter rope. Not really needed since they are strapped on but would help keep them down if the animal jumped or got a little bouncy.

 

[mntnguide]

Have you thought of building a Saw box that goes on top of your load? Cut 2 holes in sheet of plywood that goes over your decker rings, then have ropes off each side that suck it down tight to the crows foot ring. You can build a sleeve box on top of that to slide your saw in and a small box for the accessories, that makes grabbing it on and off a matter of a few seconds and is always handy. . I know my description isnt the best, I grabbed a screenshot of this photo to hopefully give you a better idea. He can just slide that saw in and out, and has a small bunjie cord that goes through the handle to keep in in the sleeve. You can easily take the saw out while still sitting on your horse. In the box, he has gas and oil. You could build your own set up however you want, just an idea to try and make your life easier clearing burns.

If you have Insta, go to Royal_Tine_Guide_School and you can search through his page and see videos with this set up on the front animal. I worked for Cody teaching packing for years, and he has some great set ups and knowledge from 40 years of doing it.

 

[bisblue]

I've been trying a few things. The saw was a bit too heavy on top of my burro, so I've been putting the saw in panniers instead. I'm usually not packing alot of weight other than the saw.

 

[doverpack12]

Georges Book.