Deception in the hunting community

[Gerard Marcaurele]

That is incorrect we have had several in hits panhandle and west Texas. Per numbers of test there is A higher positive rate outside of the fence.

The first 9 CWD hits where mule deer in west Texas.

Well I sit corrected. I can admit when I'm wrong. Thank you for providing facts and simply proving me wrong.

For the record, that doesn't change mind on HF ranches. But, I won't say that CWD is the reason I don't like them without data to prove so.

 

[cuerro viejo]

That's a lame response. Of course they didn't. But at our current point in history cattle are a domestic animal. Do you want to turn deer and elk into a domestic animal?

Deer and elk are for human consumption and are regulated as a sustainable food source. Tags, seasons, even genetic regulations...

Domestic doesn’t mean tame.

 

[kscreekguy]

That's a lame response. Of course they didn't. But at our current point in history cattle are a domestic animal. Do you want to turn deer and elk into a domestic animal?

They need not be domesticated to be a livestock animal. This is the case with elk and deer in commercial applications that are outside and inside of the US. You were talking about a livestock animal, not domesticated, which is quite different.

 

[NoWiser]

For the record I think that high fence hunting and pen raised deer/elk etc is garbage and shouldn't be a thing...same with baiting.

Sorry if this comes off as harsh but I bristle up anytime these organizations (HSUS) target individual rights passing it off for the "greater good" when that is not their motivation at all.

It sounds like we pretty much agree on the high fence and pen raised deer issue then. If baiting is proven to contribute to the spread of CWD I'll be the first to be on board with banning that, too. Lot's of things are illegal because they are harmful to the greater good. Captive deer should be one of them.

I'm no friend of the HSUS but agreeing with them on one issue isn't a sign of weakness, it's just common sense if it's good for the future of our wildlife. Agreeing with them and getting in bed with them are not the same thing.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Well I sit corrected. I can admit when I'm wrong. Thank you for providing facts and simply proving me wrong.

For the record, that doesn't change mind on HF ranches. But, I won't say that CWD is the reason I don't like them without data to prove so.

I get it 100%. I have hunted HF and guided hunts on them. Hunting is what you make of it HF or LF. Lots of HF I wouldn’t hunt or care to step foot on. Then there are some that because they keep the densities so low, and terrain is the way it is. It’s alot harder hunting then the hill country.

I’m not a fan of fenced true migratory animals. If you have to supplement in the winter cut the fence.

I don’t like broad brushes. It’s weird we manage tags numbers, ratio’s even genetics, and every one is cool with it until someone wants to add age structure and improve habitat conditions soley on their dime

 

[kscreekguy]

This brings me to the sad truth, The largest group of suicides are middle age white males.

I was at the doctor for the first time in 17 years and was asked how I was feeling by everyone that worked there. Finally I asked the Doc what gives? He said the suicide rates are out the roof for white guys in their late 20's to 40's.

 

[kscreekguy]

And so it continues.... another year without an elk for our elk expert. I find it funny that during his private land days he was an elk killer but now, when he truly has to hunt OTC Public land spots success is nonexistent. Karma?

Who are you talking about?

 

[Jeff Martin]

I was at the doctor for the first time in 17 years and was asked how I was feeling by everyone that worked there. Finally I asked the Doc what gives? He said the suicide rates are out the roof for white guys in their late 20's to 40's.

Would be curious if the rates are higher than normal if the numbers exclude veterans. It makes me sick at my stomach to know promising men in their prime (especially veterans) are taking their own life.


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[kscreekguy]

Would be curious if the rates are higher than normal if the numbers exclude veterans. It makes me sick at my stomach to know promising men in their prime (especially veterans) are taking their own life.


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This is a great question. Judging by the way the questions were asked at the office I would assume that it is not just veterans. Our young men are often lacking the simple pleasure of achievement from even the most simple tasks in the real world. Too many video games and not enough opportunity to affect those around them.

 

[Gobbler36]

Best thing I ever did was get rid of cable 2 years ago. I miss Rinella, Newberg, the guys at the Western Hunter, and a few others but by and large I do not miss those idiots on OCh and SpCh at all. BTW, I have a good friend trying to get a new show on the air right now. He has told me all about the process of trying to get a new show on one of those channels (or even Nat Geo channel or others). It is pretty cutthroat. Producers are looking for $$$ and if they don't see it, they don't bite. It's true, a lot of the idiots on those channels pay to put their content on TV in the hopes that some clothing brand or other sponsor picks up their show to cover costs eventually. That does explain a lot of the crap we see. As a Western hunter, I also have to remember that we are probably the minority of what the hunting industry caters to. Eastern and Southern whitetail hunters probably outnumber us 10:1 on overall numbers. Seasons are much longer and there is a lot more money to be made on trail cams, food plots, blinds, etc so most shows cater to them. These forums are pretty good about info sharing and learning how to hunt western big game...Mostly I miss the TV shows for scenery and techniques...not kill shots.

This is a good thing we don't need anymore help trying to get more people to come on western hunts

 

[jjjjeremy]

To the point of the OP, I think that hunting media is better now that it ever has been. Sure, there are the gear hawkers, but there just migrated from the "gear reviews" in hunting magazines to Instagram. There are a few really good shows and channels out there that make up for the rest of the noise. Randy Newberg and Steve Rinella make great quality stuff. The Hush guys have their place, and it's easy to ignore the daily vlogs about stopping by the archery shop or meeting up with Mtn Ops. Stuck In The Rut is good too, but I feel like the production quality could be better, and they're all focused on long range, at least the stuff they publish.

 

[MAT]

If baiting is proven to contribute to the spread of CWD I'll be the first to be on board with banning that, too.

It has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. And not just CWD, bovine TB in deer was perpetuated in MI by baiting and feeding and it took a ban to get rid of it. I never understood why people think that animals eating from the same pile would not spread disease, but I bet they wouldn't eat from an open buffet after a class of snot nosed kids when thru. So turn on most hunting shows and you'll see attractants advertised knowing full well they spread diseases (as well as concentrate predators, promote fighting etc). And these hunters claim they care about the welfare of wild animals. It's no wonder hunters are such easy targets for the HSUS.

 

[KurtR]

Baiting is not legal here but seeing 200-300 plus deer in a cut corn field is not uncommon or in food plots which are not considered baiting but have more deer around them than bait does. What should be done about that?

 

[MAT]

Baiting is not legal here but seeing 200-300 plus deer in a cut corn field is not uncommon or in food plots which are not considered baiting but have more deer around them than bait does. What should be done about that?

Typical but valid response by those who want to bait. Diseases like the flu spread all by themselves, otherwise there would be any, right? Same with CWD. In your example reducing the deer population would help if that's practicable (but is often opposed by hunters). While food plots can transmit diseases just the same as a farming practices there is no doubt that baiting is many times more effective because of the limited area and the REPEATED placement of bait. That last part is what really separates baiting from other practices. Baiting is also the easiest to define and eliminate, which WILL reduce the transmission rate. Since CWD spreads all by itself we are not going to eliminate it by banning bait, food plots or even farming but we can reduce the rate of spread which will buy us time. It’s like saying car exhaust causes lung cancer too so we shouldn’t ban smoking, which is something only a smoker would say.

 

[bowieknife50]

It has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. And not just CWD, bovine TB in deer was perpetuated in MI by baiting and feeding and it took a ban to get rid of it. I never understood why people think that animals eating from the same pile would not spread disease, but I bet they wouldn't eat from an open buffet after a class of snot nosed kids when thru. So turn on most hunting shows and you'll see attractants advertised knowing full well they spread diseases (as well as concentrate predators, promote fighting etc). And these hunters claim they care about the welfare of wild animals. It's no wonder hunters are such easy targets for the HSUS.

TB was never eliminated in Michigan. It probably never will be because of the interaction between deer and cattle as reservoirs in the core TB area. I'm not arguing with the idea that baiting perpetuates the problem. TB can be spread by respiratory secretions so there's no way to argue that baiting wouldn't encourage spread. Just saying in the core area where baiting is banned there is a "downward tend" in TB positive deer not elimination of disease. MI also still allows baiting outside the core area but with CWD infiltrating that is likely to change soon.

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[JP100]

The "Hush Life Bros" are a great example of public land hunters and fighting hard to keep public land in public hands! They are also more knowledgeable about conservation than most hunters. If you spent anytime watching their hunting videos, you'd realize they are a great group of guys making a positive impact on the hunting industry.

Maybe in the US they are, What they did here was not only un ethical and a spit in the face of public land hunters but borderline illegal. They hunted high fence pen job stag(which is all legal and 'fair chase') but did not talk about it at all(mis leading people to believe it was a real hunt). Their AATH/Heli Hunt Chamois was utter bull shit. the fact it lasted less than a week online must say something. There is no way you can pass that off as a fair hunt of any kind. AATH allows them to do that on PUBLIC land, where other foot hunters are hunting. Imagine being the guy who walks into the valley and then have a machine come in and chase animals to death in front of you because "thats how they hunt down there".

People love to talk 'ethics' and 'legal' hunts. When you come to a place like NZ you get to see peoples true colors. remove the laws and people will do almost anything to get 'their animal'. I have seen countless 'hunting figures' who preach good management, ethical hunting and promote real hunting in North America and Europe. Yet when they come here they will happily chase animals to death with a helicopter and shoot stags that have just been let out the trailer. Someones ethics are best judged when there are no laws holding them back. The 'Hush bros' failed that one miserably

 

[ndbuck09]

Hey JP100, I'd like to explore the New Zealand thing further, what other hunting figures have you seen sacrifice their ethics/morals in the taking of animals over there?

I too believe that the true measure of Character is what someone would do when there's "no holds barred" on what they can do. This is the core of what happens to people when they become super rich/powerful...

 

[JP100]

Hey JP100, I'd like to explore the New Zealand thing further, what other hunting figures have you seen sacrifice their ethics/morals in the taking of animals over there?

I too believe that the true measure of Character is what someone would do when there's "no holds barred" on what they can do. This is the core of what happens to people when they become super rich/powerful...

All of them if you include high fence hunting. We dont have the TV shows you guys get so i only see photos and stories from the guides that guide these hunters. Extreme outer limits guys did heli hunts, Kuiu boys(have that from a good source that they heli hunted their chamois). Jim shockeys recent whitetail hunt was a joke. Shoots a 2 year old and passes off it a good buck. The herd he hunted is pretty much ****ed from over hunting.

To me it seems strange. These guys dont hunt penned up whitetail in the states (maybe some do). But when they come here its 'normal' to hunt penned up stags. Ive never met a kiwi who hunts behind wire. All the guides and kiwi hunters laugh at these guys behind their back. Alot of false info is passed around to clients. Pretty shameful

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[dotman]

All of them if you include high fence hunting. We dont have the TV shows you guys get so i only see photos and stories from the guides that guide these hunters. Extreme outer limits guys did heli hunts, Kuiu boys(have that from a good source that they heli hunted their chamois). Jim shockeys recent whitetail hunt was a joke. Shoots a 2 year old and passes off it a good buck. The herd he hunted is pretty much ****ed from over hunting.

To me it seems strange. These guys dont hunt penned up whitetail in the states (maybe some do). But when they come here its 'normal' to hunt penned up stags. Ive never met a kiwi who hunts behind wire. All the guides and kiwi hunters laugh at these guys behind their back. Alot of false info is passed around to clients. Pretty shameful

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It's all about selling an image to make $$$$, and plenty of them have made a ton of $$$ off an image. The celebrity hunters are getting thick with social media.

 

[weatherbow21]

Maybe in the US they are, What they did here was not only un ethical and a spit in the face of public land hunters but borderline illegal. They hunted high fence pen job stag(which is all legal and 'fair chase') but did not talk about it at all(mis leading people to believe it was a real hunt). Their AATH/Heli Hunt Chamois was utter bull shit. the fact it lasted less than a week online must say something. There is no way you can pass that off as a fair hunt of any kind. AATH allows them to do that on PUBLIC land, where other foot hunters are hunting. Imagine being the guy who walks into the valley and then have a machine come in and chase animals to death in front of you because "thats how they hunt down there".

People love to talk 'ethics' and 'legal' hunts. When you come to a place like NZ you get to see peoples true colors. remove the laws and people will do almost anything to get 'their animal'. I have seen countless 'hunting figures' who preach good management, ethical hunting and promote real hunting in North America and Europe. Yet when they come here they will happily chase animals to death with a helicopter and shoot stags that have just been let out the trailer. Someones ethics are best judged when there are no laws holding them back. The 'Hush bros' failed that one miserably

Did I miss the story on the Hush guys?