Dangerous Game Bullets

[treillw]

Speaking specifically about pistols, but I guess any firearm is relevant ...

I still don't know if I buy the whole penetration is paramount thing. I can't imagine that a hollow point would have trouble penetrating to the brain cavity of anything in North America.

Poking skinny holes through something doesn't seem too lethal to me, unless your sub half inch projectile hits something major.

Although it doesn't go as deep, I would imagine a hollow point partially exploding, while still having sufficient mass to get some penetration, would have a better chance of hitting the spine or debilitating the central nervous system.

Using something that doesn't expand is almost like stabbing the animal with a thin knife.

I wouldn't use a non expanding bullet for hunting, because I don't think it does as much damage and kills as fast.

Archery kills by hemorrhaging and typically rifles by blowing up internal tissue and hydrostatic shock.

I shot an elk in the head two times at 10 yards this year with a 300 win mag and 215 grain berger and it just looked at me with eyes as big as saucers. At least one bullet exited. I don't recall seeing a second exit, but I also didn't look too hard. Don't know what that means exactly, but you think a 300 win to the head twice would take down just about anything.

Just some random thoughts I'm struggling with. I could be convinced otherwise.

Thoughts?

 

[FLAK]

Talk to an African PH. about penetration on dangerous game.

And I'm throwing a flag on the play with the Elk and the 300 WM.

 

[WCB]

Most "dangerous game" projectiles are very truncated many times flat in front. This helps create a better wound channel/energy transfer upon impact. If you are talking about something coming to kill you or eat you you have to hit it somewhere to stop it right now or break something major so expansion doesn't help you.

 

[Touchdown88]

Check out cutting edge bullets for dangerous game. Even in a pistol. They put a lot of research into penetration for their bullet designs.

 

[wildwilderness]

You have to understand the anatomy of the "Head" vs "Central Nervous System" an elks "head" is large and mostly non-vital. Many people go for a "head shot" and end up wounding animals since the whole nose, sinuses, jaws, etc are non-vital areas and un-ethical to hit. You have to hit the "Central Nervous System" which is the actual Brain cavity and spinal cord. If you had done so it would have dropped like a ton of bricks. this is located in a much smaller area. Please look at animal anatomy.

Handguns compared to rifles are really weak. You will need all the penetration you can get if faced with a dangerous game encounter.

 

[jmez]

If you need to stop dangerous game right now you need to hit the brain case, spinal cord , pelvis or brachial plexus. You hit the brachial plexsus you better get another one in them quick because they will get back up shortly. Animals are three legged critters with a spare. Breaking a single leg isn't going to do it.

You shoot a bear in the hump with a hollow point you aren't getting to the spinal cord. Hardcast will. Shoot one in the side with a hollow point you may or may not make it to the spine, pelvis or brachial plexus. Hardcast will. Doesn't matter if you hit the vitals with your hollow point. You can blow the heart and lungs to nothing and the bear will still have plenty of time to do you harm.

On the elk, you missed the brain case. Only a very small part of the head is a lethal, incapacitating shot.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Anyone who doesn't believe in the lethality of a heavy flat nosed hard cast bullet has obviously never used them. Ive killed alot of game at close range with handguns and a 45/70 lever rifle, hard cast bullets are devastating.

 

[bsnedeker]

Good timing on this thread! I can never seem to get my hands on those Buffalo Bore 9mm bullets everyone talks about so I was thinking about just loading some hard cast 9mm's by hand.

Does anyone else do this, and if so, what projectiles do you use? Badman Bullets sells 147 gr hard cast 9mm bullets, but they are hard cast lead....buffalo bore says their bullets are NOT lead so I'm not sure if they are what I'm looking for.

 

[Copperhead]

Dangerous game bullets are just that: for dangerous game. You want a bullet that can stop a frontal charge on a thick skulled, thick skinned, heavily muscled animal. Imagine an anatomy chart with straight lines drawn through it from every angle and see how much penetration it takes to get to the central nervous system to drop something that's trying to kill you. Sure a 400grain TSX out of a big bore can make a brown bear do a barrel roll or knock over a cape buffalo when you shoot it broadside, but turn that animal around to face you head down coming to stomp you to death. Something that's gonna hold together and dive deep is gonna be alot more effective in reminding said critter that it's supposed to be dead.

 

[hodgeman]

Grizzly and Brown bears can soak up lead like a sponge. Pistols (even the 44 Mag) are very short on power when it comes to shooting though a densely muscled bear. Hard cast gives you the penetration you need to break heavier bones.

Even a big black bear can take a real beating and still keep going.

 

[Beendare]

I have a lot of experience with close shots and hollow points....poor performance on hard targets.

I used to guide and do hog depredation. I cant even count the number of times Ive been charged or shot hogs at close range in the head with a .357 and 158 gr hollow points.

It sucks to shoot a hog in the head and drop him......only to have him get up 2 minutes later trying to rip you a new one.

I cant give you a % failure....but its surprisingly high on headshots.

Hollow points are ok on soft targets......not on hog heads and thick shields...I can tell you that.

 

[TREE ‘EM]

I’ve cleanly taken a fair number of big game animals with solids.

If you know the anatomy of the animal and have a rifle you can precisely place your shot with, there is no more efficient combination.

Most African PH’s I know carry nothing but solids in there rifle to achieve penetration from any angle.

 

[treillw]

Alright I'll buy into it.

So I have a 500 S&W shooting a 440 grain wide flat nose hard cast. I'm trying to figure out what to use in my 10mm for when I don't feel like essentially carrying a rifle on my belt (it weighs like 4.5 pounds loaded or something).

Do you think a 140 grain extreme penetrator or a double tap 200 grain wide flat nose hardcast bullet is more effective? The extreme penatrators out penetrate just about everything in the youtube videos I've watched.

The shot on the elk was a finishing shot. I know the anatomy. I was trying not to blow the antlers off the bull, plus there is probably some hold over necessary on my rifle at that range. It just was surprising - if it was a watermelon, I would be picking melon out of my hair for a week. I wasn't anticipating a 10 yard shot when I was doing trajectory validation at 950 yards. I guess I need to adjust my scope zero stop so I can go below zero for up close shots and figure out what the magic number is to get me right on up close.

Thanks for the help!