+ cwd

[Idaboy]

Scientists and biologists are confident that the disease was very new when it was discovering in captive cervids in the late 60s.

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Very new like last 100 yrs or last 1000 yrs?....Prions were maybe positively identified in 1960s, but Creutzfeldt described the disease in 1920s and "scrapie" was described by sheep herders centuries ago

 

[KurtR]

Another 18 year old I take it ? Or just someone that thinks he ( she) knows everything ? The meat has been taken care of, but I am willing to donate any future positive animals, to any one that wants it.

Nope I just find it ironic the cwd talk like it’s something new. My kid is 18 though and grew up on deer.

 

[grfox92]

Very new like last 100 yrs or last 1000 yrs?....Prions were maybe positively identified in 1960s, but Creutzfeldt described the disease in 1920s and "scrapie" was described by sheep herders centuries ago

Not Cruerzfeldt or Scrapie, CWD in cervids is believed to be new to the landscape when it was discovered. The way it was described to me by the disease specialist Biologists who told me this insinuated it was more along the 10 year mark as I understood it.



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[Fordguy]

So

You couldn't find a place to get a deer tested in Oklahoma even if you thought it was necessary.
The vet school at Oklahoma State might be able to but they sure don't publicize it.

Actually that's not true. They're testing in the panhandle counties this year. You can drive your deer out there to be tested, or if it's too far Y
you can cut your own samples and send them to any number of different labs. Not difficult to remove retrolaryngeal lymph nodes. If I can do it (almost) anyone can.

 

[Fordguy]

For all those who say "I've been eating cwd deer for years and I'm just fine". Maybe you are, and maybe you aren't. Prion diseases in humans can have a lengthy asymptomatic period. Lengthy as in more than a decade. Even deer can sometimes go a few years before they start to exhibit symptoms.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)69362-8/fulltext#:~:text=With%202700%20kuru%20cases%20altogether,of%20the%20distribution%20was%20long.

 

[Fordguy]

And since there is no such thing as a negative test you have no idea if you are ingesting prions.

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True enough. The tests don't guarantee negative, but they do provide a reasonable indicator. If a deer has recently come into contact with other cwd infected deer, there may not be enough of it in his system to test.
Results typically read "no evidence found" or something like it for a negative test. If you have a positive, they usually (in the past) do a more thorough test to confirm positive status

 

[Fordguy]

And that most butchers would already be dead from CJD.

Most butchers aren't sampling every animal that crosses their cutting table.

 

[KurtR]

For all those who say "I've been eating cwd deer for years and I'm just fine". Maybe you are, and maybe you aren't. Prion diseases in humans can have a lengthy asymptomatic period. Lengthy as in more than a decade. Even deer can sometimes go a few years before they start to exhibit symptoms.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)69362-8/fulltext#:~:text=With%202700%20kuru%20cases%20altogether,of%20the%20distribution%20was%20long.

Maybe I die tomorrow maybe I don’t . Decided along time ago I’m not living on maybes that I have 0 control over other than quitting hunting. I’m not doing that.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

What happens if it ends up having CWD after youve transported it home and were required to remove the brain tissue from the skull? You wouldn't find out until way after you've already dealt with the brains and tissue.

 

[WiscoHoundsman]

Dumb question as I am not a butcher but CWD is similar but not the same as mad cow. Does beef get tested before it’s processed? (Thinking large commercial operations) Or is there a risk that we all eat mad cow prions?

 

[MattB]

Most butchers aren't sampling every animal that crosses their cutting table.

If you read the anti-CWD regs for most states, they revolve around not transporting brain and spine and in some cases bones, but in very few instances the meat.

With that said, do you think butchers might come into contact with brains, spinal fluid or lymph nodes when processing game animals? Or their tools? Or their work surfaces?

 

[Beendare]

So much for expensive hunting knives ( exasperated face palm)

Last I saw there wasn’t anything that kills these Prions. If someone has a peer reviewed link stating bleach kills them please post it.

Links to research;
PubMed

Excerpts from a recent analysis…spoiler alert, its a lot of speculation to say; we don’t know what we don’t know.Sheesh.

Is There a Breach in the Barrier Protecting Humans from Cervid Chronic Wasting Disease?​

In reviewing recent studies examining CWD transmission from cervids to human-like primates, Osterholm and colleagues emphasized unpublished studies to conclude that cynomolgus macaques (CM) had been experimentally infected by consuming muscle tissue from CWD-positive deer (bottom of page four). If verified, this is a significant finding because meat consumption is the most likely path for transmission to humans, and CM, as Old World primates, would be the most similar organisms to humans to be infected with CWD. However, examination of the supporting citations reveals a slide show of preliminary research from 2017 (5) and a popular press article highlighting the same (6)

. As of this writing, a literature search generated no evidence of a peer-reviewed publication documenting the transmission of CWD to CM described by Osterholm and colleagues. While the authors acknowledged the unpublished nature of the work, a thorough review of the scientific literature on this topic published in 2017 (1) found no evidence for transmission of CWD to CM. Moreover, in 2018, Race et al. (7) found no evidence for transmission of CWD to CM using multiple tests, even 11 to 13 years after being “inoculated by either the intracerebral or oral route with brain homogenates from CWD-infected deer and elk containing high levels of infectivity.” Finally, attempts to infect transgenic mice expressing human prion proteins, arguably the best model for human infection, have also failed (see references 1 and 8 for reviews and caveats).

Verification that CWD can breach the cervid-human barrier or infect human-like primates would have profound implications for millions of hunters and their families who consume cervid meat, for wildlife management, and for CWD management (3, 4). If available, such evidence should be borne out expediently. Otherwise, it is essential that the record be clearly and accurately stated. Nonetheless, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (9)—the potential for CWD transmission to humans is real, and the precautionary measures proposed by Osterholm et al. are warranted.
———

 

[Fordguy]

Maybe I die tomorrow maybe I don’t . Decided along time ago I’m not living on maybes that I have 0 control over other than quitting hunting. I’m not doing that.

You've decided that you have zero control, when in reality you have the ability to minimize your own and your families exposure to something that may or may not cause a disease that is invariably fatal. You have some control. That's a far cry from having none.

 

[Fordguy]

If you read the anti-CWD regs for most states, they revolve around not transporting brain and spine and in some cases bones, but in very few instances the meat.

With that said, do you think butchers might come into contact with brains, spinal fluid or lymph nodes when processing game animals? Or their tools? Or their work surfaces?

They certainly do, but unless they're licking them or snorting them, or rubbing them in their eyes, or God forbid, using those items as a suppository, they probably have little to worry about.

Prions on skin aren't going to transmit cwd or prion disease. If the individual in question encounters prion transfer via mucous membrane, digestion, or other routes that potentially lead to transmission across the blood/brain barrier,- then they'd be more likely to have something to worry about.

 

[KurtR]

You've decided that you have zero control, when in reality you have the ability to minimize your own and your families exposure to something that may or may not cause a disease that is invariably fatal. You have some control. That's a far cry from having none.

You mean quit hunting. You’re also assuming humans can get the disease. That no human has got so there’s that. If I can’t eat a fresh back strap or tenderloin I don’t see the point in it any more.

 

[Fordguy]

You mean quit hunting. You’re also assuming humans can get the disease. That no human has got so there’s that. If I can’t eat a fresh back strap or tenderloin I don’t see the point in it any more.

I certainly didn't mean to stop hunting. Having your animals tested gives you an indication. I haven't eaten anything before testing since CWD was first identified in my home state. Is it a pain in the butt? Absolutely. Is it worth it? Seems like you've already decided. So have I.

 

[MattB]

They certainly do, but unless they're licking them or snorting them, or rubbing them in their eyes, or God forbid, using those items as a suppository, they probably have little to worry about.

Prions on skin aren't going to transmit cwd or prion disease. If the individual in question encounters prion transfer via mucous membrane, digestion, or other routes that potentially lead to transmission across the blood/brain barrier,- then they'd be more likely to have something to worry about.

I am sure they never wipe their eyes or noses reflexively while wearing gloves with animal matter on them or touch tools/surfaces that could hold prions that were inadequately San tubes and then do so.

Do you think that butchers fully clean/sanitize all their tools/work surfaces between animals? Seems like it would be pretty easy for material from one animal to come into contact with material from another when one looks at the guidelines for cleaning hard surfaces to protect against CWD transmission.

My point here is that there are lots of avenues for people who come into frequent contact with wild game to be infected, and yet there is no anecdotal evidence to point to this as an actual means of transmission to humans.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

If someone has a peer reviewed link stating bleach kills them please post it.

See post #17.

 

[Preston]

Ate some cwd Muley this evening, seems to give it a little more flavor. Didn’t efffffect me a bit

 

[Fordguy]

I am sure they never wipe their eyes or noses reflexively while wearing gloves with animal matter on them or touch tools/surfaces that could hold prions that were inadequately San tubes and then do so.

Do you think that butchers fully clean/sanitize all their tools/work surfaces between animals? Seems like it would be pretty easy for material from one animal to come into contact with material from another when one looks at the guidelines for cleaning hard surfaces to protect against CWD transmission.

My point here is that there are lots of avenues for people who come into frequent contact with wild game to be infected, and yet there is no anecdotal evidence to point to this as an actual means of transmission to humans.

I can only speak for two butcher/processing opperations that I know (and have known for decades). They both wear safety glasses, and since their shops are open to the public, im pretty sure neither of them would wipe their nose while processing something that someone else is going to eat.
To answer your question about sanitizing knives and surfaces between animals, yes they both do. Johnny keeps a few 2 gallon buckets of bleach solution on his counter at all times, one for knives and one for mopping down the counter and tables. Does that also extend to grinders? no, I don't believe it does. However, they will bag all "scrap" so that you can take it home and grind your own upon request.

On that note, are you honestly trying to compare the miniscule quantity of prions that might be transfered via an apparently clean knife blade to the quantity of prions that someone would consume from an infected animal? Even if the bleach solution doesn't completely eliminate all prions, you're safer having a quality processor cut your venison with "no evidence found" test results than you are eating 60 lbs of CWD positive backstraps, steak, roasts and burger.
Testing is about managing your risk, and hopefully making an informed decision about the safety of your food.

To address your "point"- maybe there are people who have contracted prion disease/TSE from CWD. Maybe not. If you run the same infection/transmission scenario on a variety of test subjects with differing genetic backgrounds a million times, will one or more come back positive? What about running it another million times? The more times you run the test the more likely you are to find subjects who are susceptible. It's not a lottery that I want to win. We know that prion diseases have jumped from animal to human many times in the past. Not everyone who ate mad cow burgers ended up with bovine variant CJD, only the lucky individuals who were susceptible.