Custom Dope chart for sfp scope

[Stinky Coyote]

out of curiousity, i searched this thread to find out who had the audacity to drag "competition" into a hunting conversation.

what i found was that, prior to this post, exactly half of the posts (6/12) that say "competition" in this thread came one member, who does not participate in competition, fundamentally objects to using competition as a way to prep for hunting, and is currently grandstanding about how ridiculous it is that competitors keep dragging competition topics into a hunting discussion.

First I didn't bring competition into this thread but you prove my point. Second, since we're here now, I don't object, I just ask that competition include a lot more disclosure...personal, and or buddy on buddy crime...not just sanctioned events against randoms with gear and prep that suits way beyond where long range hunting actually ends for whatever that majority percentage is.

Some honest disclosure from those who compete and the few that do consistently kill past 600, on what's actually useful for hunting would be nice...ie; some are pretty realistic about it (from experience and humility of course) and have two completely different rifles, scopes etc. for either because they learned the difference is way bigger than often admitted here. 3rd, I have competed in field against buddy who competes as traditionally explained here and we're equally deadly hunters (bow and gun) not because one of us competes traditionally in both and one doesn't...but because we're solid closers due to a lifetime of...wait for it...hunting. I don't need to compete against him in a sanctioned competition, he wins, the animals don't care and neither do I, he doesn't either, because this isn't a long range competition forum lol. He has been caught out from his range gear afield a handful of times I can recite or witnessed...and he accepts it. I tend to boil things down to minimize the chances of said things. For the time he puts into it, he does for the pleasure and obsession for accuracy, he likes the social, I don't think he cares about actually beating other guys. And that time does not proportionally out weigh our differences in the field on hunting. Period, end of story. Why is it different here?

So there's nothing ridiculous about discussing this in this forum, the ridiculousness is half the posts gaslighting 600-1000 yard precision competition gear/methods to apply for 0-600 yard long range hunting.

And yeah Lawnboi, I know, I'm wordy, what else you gonna read right now? You really wanna get back to decorating the tree? You're welcome

And back to the SFP scope card, I gave great hunt friendly advice on that, pictures etc. And hey...somewhere currently on the first page of this sub-forum is a guy who dialled up a 974 mule deer and ran his wind call the same way and slam dunked it (~dropped a bomb on this buck). Ask him if he knows why he skipped doing the mil correction for an on target reference in inches?, for those of us paying attention, or have also done this when reticle reference available...we have a pretty good idea.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

@Stinky Coyote

I don't think anything is landing on deaf ears. I think what it comes down to is that we just disagree, and that's fine. You keep trying to separate hunting and competition, but hitting a target under stress is hitting a target under stress. We all know that practicing will make us better at something. Since I can't get unlimited tags or just go out and practice shooting animals at will, I practice by shooting competitions designed to test the same skills as in hunting situations.

You bring up non dynamic 'target' again, and pressure from others and demand of competition to hit it, no decent visual reference info you get from size of real animal, brain is missing info you'd normally get hunting, or at least practicing closer to that, ...hitting an 'animal' under stress is totally different, and actually not that stressful at all, you can get quite peaceful, calm and focused for the long range shot on an animal. So 100% disagree competition is necessary for that prep and will always agree they are completely different things. You can up your shoot iq and basic shoot skills quickly or stay sharp by competition but there a serious point of diminishing returns threshold you cross over to go there.

If you are simply saying that a 25 lb race gun designed for PRS isn't the same as a "normal" hunting rifle, then we agree totally. On the other hand, many rifles at competitions like NRL Hunter are actual rifles that are hunted with.

I wanna bring up that post from Form where he got realistic about PRS rigs/competition and the gear but we're really derailing hard and I'm not digging, you may remember it. I said yes, about the types of targets not being like 3d etc. etc. I pretty much agree with you but from his drill down on it he didn't hold back and revealed plenty about it's lack of congruity to hunting and that more of the rigs being used are not used for actual hunting so lets leave that for another day or reflection.

Also, I have not said that you can't go out and hunt successfully with minimal gear. I am saying there are limitations to the effectiveness of minimal gear. Most people do worry about gear too much instead of learning the skills required to become an effective hunter/killer. I choose to use the gear I do because it works most effectively in my experience.

Awesome point, wish more would do this and be realistic about the true differences between hunting and competition.

This thread was started by someone asking about a dope card for an SFP scope. Many people, including myself, have posted that we feel there is a better way. That doesn't mean you can't be an effective hunter using different methods, but I'm going to recommend what I think is best. You are free to recommend your preferred method as well. The best part is that we all get to decide for ourselves.

And I played well, this time.

There's a beauty example 'dropped a bomb on this buck' thread on this 1st page of this sub forum that seems to agree with how wind calls can be done for long range hunting. Yes it was 974 yards but 2-3 mph wind or 20" which is where 'hunting' lands within on wind calls and for most winds this means 400-600 lol. So a unique and rare opportunity to stay comfortable in the kill zone just further than normal mortals will do and he didn't mil correct to do it but from sounds of it in thread he could have. Be interesting to ask why he didn't? I've taken several testers for those situations afield on inanimate, even asked to show up by my target buddy to do that so added stress to put my money where my mouth was, but have yet to be presented that opportunity afield to capitalize that far (400-600 I have) or couldn't get closer and make even more slam dunk.

The OP can boil down whatever system he likes with his SFP scope, he has all the methods now, even one that works great with a duplex reticle.

 

[fwafwow]

Wow.

 

[Lawnboi]

But how do you know if you havnt tried it?

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Tried what? How do I know if I can be good at competition if I haven't tried it? I don't. We're not on a competition forum. But I know how to do long range hunting because I've tried that, with plenty of gear/methods, bow/gun, and been shooting along side pal that does both and our freezers and walls never looked different and when we shoot beside each other in most realistic scenarios we can come up with we are equals on kill zones to distances beyond where we've killed anything. Do tell...what am I missing?

 

[Lawnboi]

I already did.

I shot stuff the way you’re saying in the 2000s just like everyone else.

 

[Lawnboi]

Your good at trolling but your not that good

 

[EdP]

while I'm sure there are people who successfully use a dope chart that includes reticle holdovers at various scope magnifications for a 2fp scope, I feel like that has a very high potential FOR ME to add layers of error (exact magnification, holding between hashmarks, reading correct column on chart, etc) such that it likely would not consistently meet my expectations for precision at ranges where I'd want to use it.

Mac, I have not found it very difficult at all but that's within my self imposed limitations. I don't use the cluttered reticles, go directly to max magnification, and have memorized the holdovers out to at least 500 yds in 50 yd increments before the hunt. That's simple if you have selected the right zero and verified the holdovers with hits at the range. In cases where I needed to hold between hashmarks I found it easy to bracket the animal and make the shot. It does get more complicated out towards 600 as bullet drop increases so much more with each increment of distance. I don't plan to attempt shots beyond 600 and have never needed to go beyond 500. That certainly factors in with regard to your concerns both about opportunity for error and expectations for precision. My feeling is that beyond 600 yds dialing becomes much more advantageous but holdover works fine at shorter distances if the shooter is properly prepared in advance. However, if you are going to dial there is no reason not to dial all the time beyond mpbr. If you are not going to shoot at the ranges where dialing becomes necessary, there is little reason to incur the extra equipment cost. We each have to find and use what works for us to meet our own personal goals. For me it is using a holdover reticle and it sounds like for you it is dialing. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I have a 6.5prc that im looking for a scope to match to. Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head? Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.


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I am a big fan of SFP scopes. All but one of my rifles have them. I hate FFP, with a passion. The secret is to always dial for elevation and never hold over. Out to 500 yards, you usually dont have to worry much about wind. After 500, you can dial for wind as well if you want. I have my wind hold in inches on my dope chart so I can estimate 20 inches or whatever.

FFP reticles disappear on low power at low light or against a dark background. Illumination can compensate, but one more thing to worry about. I go through this whole FFP SFP battle in my head a few times a year, I end up talking myself into buying a FFP scope, hunt with it, hate it, sell it, repeat process.

 

[Formidilosus]

Out to 500 yards, you usually dont have to worry much about wind.

May I ask where you are hunting in the west where you don’t have to worry about wind under 500 yards?

After 500, you can dial for wind as well if you want.

How do you dial wind consistently in the west, when it changes speed in seconds frequently?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

May I ask where you are hunting in the west where you don’t have to worry about wind under 500 yards?





How do you dial wind consistently in the west, when it changes speed in seconds frequently?

Idaho, Montana, Utah, Colorado…I shoot high BC bullets. A 147gr eldm at 3000 fps hasn’t moved enough to not hit vitals on deer and elk under 500 so far for me. Maybe I am just lucky? Wyoming and North Dakota has been the only two states where I have had to make a wind adjustments within 500.

Whats the difference between holding for wind and dialing for wind? You are still making a judgement call either with the reticle or with the windage turret. Same same, one just takes half a second longer. Just like dialing for elevation becomes second nature, dialing for windage does too when you do it enough. Its never caused me to miss an opportunity on an animal.

 

[Formidilosus]

Idaho, Montana, Utah, Colorado…I shoot high BC bullets. A 147gr eldm at 3000 fps hasn’t moved enough to not hit vitals on deer and elk under 500 so far for me. Maybe I am just lucky? Wyoming and North Dakota has been the only two states where I have had to make a wind adjustments within 500.

Thank you. I asked as I/we hunt those states as well and I don’t think I’ve held center ( I wind) but maybe once even less than 300 yards.

Whats the difference between holding for wind and dialing for wind? You are still making a judgement call either with the reticle or with the windage turret. Same same, one just takes half a second longer.

Wind isn’t consistent, and the proper hold changes, or can change rapidly. A wind hold can go from left .7 to a left 1.3 nearly instantly, and back again, or a different hood. Holding it just sliding the reticle over. Dialing is reaching up and twisting, or waiting for the wind to be back to what you dialed. In any case, dialing wind takes a minimum of 3-5 seconds per adjustment. Doing that multiple times isn’t “fast”. Then what do you do when you miss the wind call on the first shot? Try to dial out the correction on the fly?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Thank you. I asked as I/we hunt those states as well and I don’t think I’ve held center ( I wind) but maybe once even less than 300 yards.





Wind isn’t consistent, and the proper hold changes, or can change rapidly. A wind hold can go from left .7 to a left 1.3 nearly instantly, and back again, or a different hood. Holding it just sliding the reticle over. Dialing is reaching up and twisting, or waiting for the wind to be back to what you dialed. In any case, dialing wind takes a minimum of 3-5 seconds per adjustment. Doing that multiple times isn’t “fast”. Then what do you do when you miss the wind call on the first shot? Try to dial out the correction on the fly?

Its a little more complicated for sure. Thats a tradeoff I am willing to make for a usable reticle at low power in low light, or with dark backgrounds. Anything over 500 yards I am on max power anyway. I shot this 3 shot group at 1000 yards last week with my 6mm CM and 5.5-22x56 NXS (SFP.) There was a pretty stiff wind from left to right. First shot I spotted my miss through the scope. Used the reticle to hold for wind for the next 3. As long as you don’t screw with the magnification, using an SFP reticle to correct misses due to wind is just as easy.

 

[Formidilosus]

First shot I spotted my miss through the scope. Used the reticle to hold for wind for the next 3. As long as you don’t screw with the magnification, using an SFP reticle to correct misses due to wind is just as easy.

Yes, but how you are using two different systems- dial for one, hold based on an estimate for the next; and you you can not translate the miss that you see and the adjustments to the turret- unless you are shooting at 22x at 500 yards? Which is a whole other problem set added on if so.


Why complicate the whole thing? I’m not being a jerk, I’m asking- do you believe that your “preference” of SFP/FFP and reticles has any actually bearing on performance when measured and validated in large sample sets?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Yes, but how you are using two different systems- dial for one, hold based on an estimate for the next; and you you can not translate the miss that you see and the adjustments to the turret- unless you are shooting at 22x at 500 yards? Which is a whole other problem set added on if so.


Why complicate the whole thing? I’m not being a jerk, I’m asking- do you believe that your “preference” of SFP/FFP and reticles has any actually bearing on performance when measured and validated in large sample sets?

I know, I get what you are saying…I have owned maybe 20 FFP scopes, so I am constantly trying to embrace them. I just can’t do it . For whatever reason, SFP works for me and knock on wood I have never not recovered an animal.

I will add, I always try and get within 600 yards, which is a chip shot when you practice as regularly as I do out to 1250. So I would say 80% of game I take is sub 600 yards. The other 20% I am pretty picky and will pass if I don’t like the wind or am having a hard time reading it.

 

[Formidilosus]

I know, I get what you are saying…I have owned maybe 20 FFP scopes, so I am constantly trying to embrace them. I just can’t do it . For whatever reason, SFP works for me and knock on wood I have never not recovered an animal.

I will add, I always try and get within 600 yards, which is a chip shot when you practice as regularly as I do out to 1250. So I would say 80% of game I take is sub 600 yards. The other 20% I am pretty picky and will pass if I don’t like the wind or am having a hard time reading it.