Custom Dope chart for sfp scope

[justin davis]

I like to range and dial for most shots. I use 2nd focal plane scope.

Got this trick from Ryan Avery, but I just use white electrical tape and wrap a small piece on the turret and write in the dope for the general conditions we will be hunting in. (100-900). Then all you do is range quick and dial real quick.

Similar to what I do with a bow. I range and then dial the bow. I’m a range finding whore and use it all the time.

Typically when walking around we just move the turret and set it to 200 yards. So if anything is close it’s just shoot. But if it’s way out there then can dial.

Here is a pic. 3 is 300 4 is 400 etc

I hardly rifle hunt (only for coyotes). My wife does the rifle hunting. So while it might be quicker to do a holdover. The dial and aim right on is easier and simplified for my wife

 

[Mojave]

The idea that you'd take a snap shot at a distance that requires the hold over is iffy at best.
If you have time to read a chart, you have time to turn the magnification up to the usable range for hold over.

My hunting rig has a 3-10 SPF with the mil-reticle. In open country I'm walking around on 10X. When I'm in the timber, 6X is my preferred setting.

Also, MPBR takes a lot of the guess work out. Some don't like it, some do. It has never treated me wrong.

The problem with MPVR is that what are you do at 500 or 800? You don’t do anything because how are you going to figure that out? I guess you could figure out with the longest MPBR distance that you would like to shoot is and then work out your dial distances after that but it always seems to me like the math is going to be wonky.

 

[Macintosh]

Mpbr has some detractors in general, but this is not a problem. You either plug your 200 yard or whatever zero into your solver and it tells you the exact solution at any yardage same as normal. Or, you zero normally for 100 yards, dial for your maximum point blank range zero and leave the scope dialed there, and then any dialing you have to do at ANY range is exactly the same as your hundred yard zero would normally be. After that, you are in exactly the same position as any other zero, i.e. you need to hold over or dial for any longer shot--Solver says 2.9 mils, you just spin the dial to 2.9 or hold just above the 3-mil point. Hunting where 99.9999% of shots are well within a dead-on hold with a 200 yard zero this works and works very well and you virtually never have the possibility for a longer shot. I'm not so sure about that for hunting in a place where you'd routinely be taking shots near and past your maximum dead-on hold.

 

[prm]

The problem with MPVR is that what are you do at 500 or 800? You don’t do anything because how are you going to figure that out? I guess you could figure out with the longest MPBR distance that you would like to shoot is and then work out your dial distances after that but it always seems to me like the math is going to be wonky.

? An MBPR is no different than any other zero. If shooting beyond your “zero” you dial or hold over. Nothing wonky about the math, just math with a number.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

or the other way to do it, zero at whatever distance, but do your walking around with the come-up for your MPBR zero already dialed in the scope. Kind of the best of both worlds.

 

[prm]

^^^That‘s what I would do ^^^

 

[Mojave]

I just don't set up my rifle for MPBR. In theory you are right, you build DOPE based on off of MPBR and everything should work.

A 200 yard zero 300 PRC 212 VLD Hunter MPBR is pretty good at 200 for elk with a 400 yard drop of 4.4 inches. Then dial 2 mils for 500, and 4.6 mils for 800.

A 300 yard zero for the same load would be -3.6 at 100 and + 3.6 at 450.

The biggest problem for me is that isn't how I practice, and I like the minuite of jelly bean accuracy at every distance. That way if I want to brain a snowshoe hare or grouse on an unproductive day walking back to the truck I know exactly where to shoot and I don't create a cloud of feathers or fur and blood.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Some interesting thoughts and good ideas in here.

1. first your dial power adjustment should have one spot that has a star or something identifying it as the place the reticle subtensions are set up to use. It might or might not be at max power.

2. There are reticles like the THLR in the Minox, Vortex XLR, and Vortex HSR, and Gunwerks reticles that have German heavy T post designs and are meant to be used at any distance. Vortex offers one of these in a 2nd focal plane.

3. You are going to want to dial for elevation at distance. Using hold overs is stupid, it doesn't allow for actual corrections. It is a guessing game and if you have a shot that is 382 how do you hold for that? Do you hold 400 and shoot over it, or hold 350 and shoot under it. No reticle based "holding for elevation" system will give you 100% shot repeatability like dialing for elevation.

4. As suggested above you should absolutely use a MIL reticle with MIL dials and a first focal plane system. Why? Well it is a simple system, because there is no focal plane subtension confusion that can happen if you don't have your power dial set on the actual calibrated subtension power.

You point your LRF at a target 662 yards away, your LRF is set up to give you straight linear distance not the hypotenuse distance so elevation hold overs don't matter. The Leupold BRX 1600 does this, and most newer LRFs will as well (but it must be set up in the menu).

Then using a ballistic solver (or a piece of tape, or log book) you dial the 4.58 mills to 662 yards. If you are using a good one, and you really want to geek out on it you can throw in estimated wind, spin drift, coralis, and weather. 662 shouldn't require all that, but it will at 800-1200 or so when things get transonic.

The only reason to not dial for distance is if you have a really cheap optic. Something made in China or the Phillipines. Then you need to work out what those subtensions mean in a ballistic solver and then true the data by shooting it. Known in the long range world as DOPE (data on previous engagement).

You must true your data to build DOPE. Even if you buy a custom rifle with a $4500 Schmidt Bender and pay for the Kestral ballistic solver and all the other schenanigans. You must prove your ammunition is shooting where you think it is at multiple ranges.

We are lucky I have a 1000 yard range 40 miles away and a 400 yard range at my house. I work out dope all the time when I change something.

Your ballistic solver (you can download one on your phone) or buy a Kestrel that can do atmospherics) must be trued to your data.

I agree with true your data to build dope. (you need to collect your own drop data/atmospheric in initial rifle set up)

That's the only part of your post I agree with for long range hunting set up, mpbr to 600.

I'll go 50/50 with you on dial up vs reticle reference for elevation corrections, that comes down to the guy behind the wheel choosing one and becoming proficient with it. Either will minute of kill zone easily to 600. Our minds are wired visually and spatially so its natural and easy to hold points on target animal reference, gapping. Do you dial your wind? If not do you have hold points for every 10th mil or do you gap a 0.7 mil call between the 0.5 and 1.0 mil hash marks? Serious bow hunters have been running fixed pin sights and gapping 10 yard increments for a long time and if you play with a dialler for hunting you're going to get caught out at some point. You cannot beat simple less is more for the real deal. Everything works at the range, the targets are not dynamic and the time is available for figuring conditions more precisely.

The rest isn't necessary for actual long range hunting and as likely to catch you out for where the real deal generally happens. The computer stuff can be done long before the season starts. All you need out there is a rangefinder and some practice reading wind which you can do with the weather network and stepping outside anytime, and practice in wind before seasons to get a respectable feel, you don't need a ballistic solver afield. Your computer at home is all you need and where it belongs, are you hunting or working? Leave the range toys at home. The rifle can be set up very simply to cover all you'll encounter to 600 long before the season starts. What percent of kills is going to be inside 450? 98%? In most conditions. What percent from 450-600? 1.5%? in ideal conditions. Maybe 0.5% over 600? in best of conditions?

 

[Stinky Coyote]

for me, holding over is quicker and i'm staying on the target or animal thru the scope. can't say how much quicker but it is quicker, at least for me. as i get older i have a harder time reading the dial, esp if darker or in a blind etc, to that makes the holding even quicker v dialing.

people should play around and see what works best for them. as i said, the reticle you use will play into the equation.

great post and extra emphasis on 'people should play around and see what works best for them'!

you can boil this long range hunting down so much further than many here suggest

and yes you can be very fast with reticle, when I ran my k95 .270 with vx3 2.5-8 I had Korth put the lr duplex reticle in which I found out with 250 yard zero the first two hashes matched 350/450 and post thickened at 550, factory federal 140 accubond load, mid afternoon spring bear hunting, with my custom everything precision obsessed buddy were bored and decided to test a 'bear of a lifetime opportunity' more to ensure we were both sharp for hunting but we had the range (575) and brutal wind mostly coming straight at us, I laid over my pack held the post thicken about the 'top of back' of our target and held a few more inches wind than I needed but was in the kill zone, I was first shooter.....we checked the target for my impact then back to make his shot, I believe I was 5" left and 2" low, told him to hold only a couple inches for wind, I held a few too many but was first shooter so.....he ran his built 264 win mag tack driver on a bipod with a 6-18x turreted with chart on the stock and fast accurate slippery handholds and after giving him my wind call he dang near pinwheeled it....point is we both killed it and I did it faster with my much more 'hunt' set up, I was out 2" on elevation compared to his all custom, uber fast modern bullet, dial up set up at 575 yards, wind is moot, wasn't hard to land in the kill zone and he was surprised when I told him to only hold 2-3" for wind as it was hitting us in the face at like 40 kmh but slightly quartering, so had he shot first he would likely have over done it like me but surely he would have landed in the kill also

if you don't practice or become good with your set up then won't matter what methods or gear you choose, you gotta build confidence in it and yourself, doesn't take a ton of shooting to do it but you do have to figure out the rifle, set it up properly, and spend some time on some steel in varying conditions leading up to the season

the examples in this thread from target set up that can prs 600+ to basic factory gear, ammo, single digit magnification range scope...can do this 'long range hunting' thing no prob, find what works for you, try it all and don't fall for the trap that you need the latest and greatest range toys and set ups to do this

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I just don't set up my rifle for MPBR. In theory you are right, you build DOPE based on off of MPBR and everything should work.

A 200 yard zero 300 PRC 212 VLD Hunter MPBR is pretty good at 200 for elk with a 400 yard drop of 4.4 inches. Then dial 2 mils for 500, and 4.6 mils for 800.

A 300 yard zero for the same load would be -3.6 at 100 and + 3.6 at 450.

The biggest problem for me is that isn't how I practice, and I like the minuite of jelly bean accuracy at every distance. That way if I want to brain a snowshoe hare or grouse on an unproductive day walking back to the truck I know exactly where to shoot and I don't create a cloud of feathers or fur and blood.

small game hunting at over a couple hundred yards would qualify for elrh so....you want to be prepared for the 0.5% and beyond 'long range hunting' and we're free to do it and many enjoy, good to admit it though, you're prepared for elrh but how big game kills do you have past 600...do you actually use it?

and he's not right in theory...he's right period, build dope on it and it DOES work, give it shot , more live of mpbr zero or rounded number near it (200/250...good for 2700/2900 fps rigs) for 'hunting' than not, it's only the elrh prep and competitive shooter guys that run 100 yard zeros trying to be prepared for elrh and prs etc. and then apply it to long range hunting where other systems work very well also

 

[wyo]

I still can't understand why the concept of 100 yard zero then dial in your MPBR/"walking around zero" or whatever the heck you want to call it is so hard for people to grasp. I had to double check that I'm still in the long range forum.

This may come off a little harsh but I'm going to say it anyway. If you have a scope that you believe is reliable enough to dial for elevation and you intend to shoot at live animals after doing so, and you STILL do not concede that the best way to ensure the reliability of your zero and your dope is to zero at 100 yards (or meters I suppose) and then dial in dope for whatever tickles your fancy while you carry your rifle around, then I'm not sure you have any business shooting at critters at long range.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I have a 6.5prc that im looking for a scope to match to. Ive heard the big downside to ffp is the crosshairs are very faint on low power for hunting. So im looking at sfp scopes and my concern is the feasibility of doing the math in the moment of the shot and being accurate. Say on half power, the adjustment will be less than at full power, correct? So do guys with sfp scopes have a dope chart that includes alternative power holdover?

For example, for a 4-16 power scope, do you have a column of holdovers for 8, 12, and 16 power levels? Or do you do the math in your head? Im trying to figure out which method is best strictly for hunting.


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This thread has gone through quite a bit of different discussions, but to get back to your original question. YES. I have a chart on my rifle, right next to my ballistic chart, that says the holdover of the subtension post at any given power the scope is dialed to. I figured out this chart both mathematically from knowing the power of the rifle and it's published subtensions and empirically by shooting the rifle at different power settings on the scope and physically measuring the difference in point of impact.

In the field, it is very easy to deploy and execute a shot. "dialing" just involves adjusting the scope to the needed power and changing my point of aim between my crosshair and the post as needed.

 

[S.Clancy]

For hunting purposes, if your going to get a SFP scope, get one that doesn’t have such a high magnification range, for example the NXS 2.5-10x42. 10x is a great magnification for hunting out to 600+ yards and your not stuck at using the reticle hash marks for hold overs at some crazy magnification. If your dialed below 10x, your probably shooting at something under 200 yards anyhow and not needing to use the hash marks, unless for wind holds of course.
Is it perfect? No. Nightforce should make the NXS Compact in ffp.


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I have a Burris Veracity 2-10x42 SFP. It is more than enough for 6-700 yard shots. Although, I am dialing at anything over 400 yards, not shooting using the reticle MOA.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I have a Burris Veracity 2-10x42 SFP. It is more than enough for 6-700 yard shots. Although, I am dialing at anything over 400 yards, not shooting using the reticle MOA.

Exactly

 

[S.Clancy]

I still can't understand why the concept of 100 yard zero then dial in your MPBR/"walking around zero" or whatever the heck you want to call it is so hard for people to grasp. I had to double check that I'm still in the long range forum.

This may come off a little harsh but I'm going to say it anyway. If you have a scope that you believe is reliable enough to dial for elevation and you intend to shoot at live animals after doing so, and you STILL do not concede that the best way to ensure the reliability of your zero and your dope is to zero at 100 yards (or meters I suppose) and then dial in dope for whatever tickles your fancy while you carry your rifle around, then I'm not sure you have any business shooting at critters at long range.

Because it's the same thing. I walk around with a 300 'zero'. With your method, I could theoretically dial down to 175 yards, but practically I would never do that. I know that I will be high at that range, but well within the kill zone. So for me, there is no point setting my 'zero' at 100 yds, then dialing to 300 and walking around like that. I just set my zero at 300.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

As long as what you do is simple, repeatable and doesn't require multiple DOPE charts or unnecessary calculations, go with it. Most of all, practice until it's second nature.

 

[S.Clancy]

As long as what you do is simple, repeatable and doesn't require multiple DOPE charts or unnecessary calculations, go with it. Most of all, practice until it's second nature.

Exactly, don't complicate things, cause if it's complicated you are going to cock it up in the moment.

 

[wyo]

Because it's the same thing. I walk around with a 300 'zero'. With your method, I could theoretically dial down to 175 yards, but practically I would never do that. I know that I will be high at that range, but well within the kill zone. So for me, there is no point setting my 'zero' at 100 yds, then dialing to 300 and walking around like that. I just set my zero at 300.

Ok. When you set that zero I assume you use a 300yd range? What was the wind doing? Or are you using an assumed offset at 100yd to set your 300yd zero? Math is math and you can start anywhere in the trajectory curve and come up with the same solutions along that curve. I don't want to come off as a d*** but most people who say they have a 300yd (or 200 or 250) zero are just saying that their group was somewhere between 1" and 3" high at 100 and they called it good enough and then say "I'm zeroed at XXX". Keep shots close and it doesn't matter but, once again, this is the long range hunting forum.

 

[ID_Matt]

Ok. When you set that zero I assume you use a 300yd range? What was the wind doing? Or are you using an assumed offset at 100yd to set your 300yd zero? Math is math and you can start anywhere in the trajectory curve and come up with the same solutions along that curve. I don't want to come off as a d*** but most people who say they have a 300yd (or 200 or 250) zero are just saying that their group was somewhere between 1" and 3" high at 100 and they called it good enough and then say "I'm zeroed at XXX". Keep shots close and it doesn't matter but, once again, this is the long range hunting forum.

I could be wrong, but I would assume since he is putting zero in quotes that he means he actually zeroes his gun at 100, but then sets his dial to 1.0 mil or whatever it works out be a rough 300 yard estimate or MPBR based on a calculator. Assuming if he needs to make a quick shot sub 300, he doesn't have to worry about dope. Then for longer shots, he just dials. I don't see any issue with it, as long as you understand your system.

 

[S.Clancy]

Ok. When you set that zero I assume you use a 300yd range? What was the wind doing? Or are you using an assumed offset at 100yd to set your 300yd zero? Math is math and you can start anywhere in the trajectory curve and come up with the same solutions along that curve. I don't want to come off as a d*** but most people who say they have a 300yd (or 200 or 250) zero are just saying that their group was somewhere between 1" and 3" high at 100 and they called it good enough and then say "I'm zeroed at XXX". Keep shots close and it doesn't matter but, once again, this is the long range hunting forum.

I set at 300, as in shoot it in at 300 yds. I also confirm dope chart out to 800. But, I think a lot of people do what you are talking about above.