Current CPW commissioners promoting proposition 127 with lies.

[WyoBC_99]

#14 is the only one that matters and going from #13 to #14 is big leap. Is there anything to back that up besides wishful speculation?

You're right. It seems to me that #14 is actually two steps removed from #13.
First, does current hunting (which would go away) have a significant impact on mtn lion populations?
2nd, would that impact then change the potential impact of mtn lions on CWD?

There are a few published studies attempting to disentangle the potential impact of predators on CWD. Personally, I'm not sure that current hunting has a large impact on the mtn lion populations in CO.

To be clear, I wasn't speaking out in support of the hunt ban, but just trying to fill a perceived knowledge gap.

I know some folks in California where mtn lion hunting has already been banned, and it seems like not a path that we want to go down.

 

[canyonhunter47]

You're right. It seems to me that #14 is actually two steps removed from #13.
First, does current hunting (which would go away) have a significant impact on mtn lion populations?
2nd, would that impact then change the potential impact of mtn lions on CWD?

There are a few published studies attempting to disentangle the potential impact of predators on CWD. Personally, I'm not sure that current hunting has a large impact on the mtn lion populations in CO.

To be clear, I wasn't speaking out in support of the hunt ban, but just trying to fill a perceived knowledge gap.

I know some folks in California where mtn lion hunting has already been banned, and it seems like not a path that we want to go down.

The only study I could find said that hunting does have an effect on lion populations, which makes sense because that what makes hunting them a management tool. I’m not sure what the theoretical lion carrying capacity in CO is, but I’d expect the population to increase if hunting ceased.

But whether that’s right or not, an observed preference for weakened deer, such as by CWD, is not proof that lions will stop or slow the spread significantly.

 

[cardiac5]

I’d post this on all the western Facebook hunting groups. Colorado elk hunters is at 96.9k member’s. I’m sure there’s lots of residents in there. There’s also members in that group with the two names you mentioned.


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[Bluumoon]

I’d post this on all the western Facebook hunting groups. Colorado elk hunters is at 96.9k member’s. I’m sure there’s lots of residents in there. There’s also members in that group with the two names you mentioned.


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I put it on all the CO ones I'm aware of.

 

[#1antler]

Any of you get a response back from the AG?

I've heard nothing back!!

 

[street]

I've heard nothing back!!

I got the generic response

 

[Hnthrdr]

Any of you get a response back from the AG?

Nada on my end

 

[CB4]

I took the 5 minutes to send the email to the AG and every state senator all in one email.

 

[WyoBC_99]

The only study I could find said that hunting does have an effect on lion populations, which makes sense because that what makes hunting them a management tool. I’m not sure what the theoretical lion carrying capacity in CO is, but I’d expect the population to increase if hunting ceased.

But whether that’s right or not, an observed preference for weakened deer, such as by CWD, is not proof that lions will stop or slow the spread significantly.

I also wonder if hunting of mtn lions is a management tool because of some behavioral training of lions to show more fear of people. The pop'n abundance effect could also be true.

 

[ODB]

Is there any study as to why a lion or wolf’s digestive system kills prions but a humans does not?

 

[WyoBC_99]

@ODB

I don't think we know that a human's digestive tract does not have a similar effect on prions. It simply hasn't been studied. (unlikely that they're going to do a study where they feed lots of prions to human volunteers ... )

Here's a few pieces of info on the issue in felines.

mtn lions

https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/msphere.00812-21

bobcats (I don't think this has been published yet)

Carnivores and scavengers could help reduce CWD - WyoFile

Bobcats may only deposit a fraction of the infectious prions on the landscape that they eat, early study results show

wyofile.com

 

[Hnthrdr]

Is there any study as to why a lion or wolf’s digestive system kills prions but a humans does not?

This! I saw that and instantly thought what a load of crock…

 

[jmez]

@ODB

I don't think we know that a human's digestive tract does not have a similar effect on prions. It simply hasn't been studied. (unlikely that they're going to do a study where they feed lots of prions to human volunteers ... )

Here's a few pieces of info on the issue in felines.

mtn lions

https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/msphere.00812-21

bobcats (I don't think this has been published yet)

Carnivores and scavengers could help reduce CWD - WyoFile

Bobcats may only deposit a fraction of the infectious prions on the landscape that they eat, early study results show

wyofile.com

All that says is the prions are not passed in the feces, period. No other conclussions can be drawn.

Removal of prion-infected cervids by predators would be even more beneficial if consuming infected carcasses also reduced the abundance of prions left in the environment.

If the prions are simply sequestered in the predator, when the predator dies the above is not true.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Well it’s in the media now. Apparently there was no disclaimer in the Durango Herald article clearly stating that Murphy and Beaulieu were speaking on personal opinion and not representing CPW or the commission. Howard also highlights they may be in violation of Colorado Open Meetings Law, which Chairman May warned the Commission about recently. Hard to co-write an Op-Ed without conversing over email or phone.

Colorado wildlife commissioners divided on Proposition 127, which would ban mountain lion, lynx and bobcat hunting

A ballot measure that seeks to prohibit the hunting of mountain lions, bobcats, and lynx has created a divide among current and former members of the Colorado Parks and Wildlife

www.coloradopolitics.com

Recommend folks email Colorado state senators, AG’s office, CPW Commission Chairman Dallas May, and DNR Director Dan Gibbs and demand an investigation as Murphy and Beaulieu broke CPW rules by not clearly stating their OpEd as outside official positions within CPW and likely a violation of Colorado Open Meeting laws. These actions were taken willingly to unduly influence voters and undermine the integrity of a Colorado election.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Likely more coming. I am going to draft some emails tonight.

 

[Ucsdryder]

 

[Jimss]

On average 300 of the 500 lions harvested annually in Colo are males. Mtn lions are polygamous so males can breed more than one female. The average litter size of mtn lions is 2 to 3/year. The estimated lion population in Colorado is 3,800 to 4,400 adults.

Harvesting an average of 300 male and 200 female lions/year in Colorado has little impact to total lion numbers but prevents more big game prey from being killed by those lions. The CPW has done a great job of monitoring the lion population and harvest of lions that allows a sustainable population of deer , wild sheep, and other prey species.

 

[Pro953]

Here in California the state kills more lions now than we ever did when we had a hunting season back in the 80’s. No doubt it would be the same in CO.

The logic (or lack of) boggles my mind.


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[Jimss]

Please read the following article about California wild sheep and mountain lions. Colorado will likely face the same scenario if this passes! You may want to pass this article along to those that are undecided whether to vote
yes or no!

Below are the last couple paragraphs in this article and reflect exactly what is going on right now in Colorado!

"With this policy, California has in effect permitted an animal-rights agenda to override science-based conservation, which focuses on the health of populations and ecosystems, not the fate of individuals.

The lives of a small number of mountain lions are being saved at the cost of many Sierra bighorn, favoring an animal with wide distribution and a large population over one that—at least so far—has barely escaped extinction."

Commentary: Can the Sierra Nevada bighorn dodge extinction? It may mean reining in another wild animal

The high peaks of the southern and central Sierra Nevada are home to a unique and endangered animal, the Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep. John Muir called them "the bravest of all the Sierra mountaineers," and indeed they have weathered both ancient and modern climate extremes, human-introduced...

phys.org

 

[Ucsdryder]

Please read the following article about California wild sheep and mountain lions. Colorado will likely face the same scenario if this passes! You may want to pass this article along to those that are undecided whether to vote
yes or no!

Below are the last couple paragraphs in this article and reflect exactly what is going on right now in Colorado!

"With this policy, California has in effect permitted an animal-rights agenda to override science-based conservation, which focuses on the health of populations and ecosystems, not the fate of individuals.

The lives of a small number of mountain lions are being saved at the cost of many Sierra bighorn, favoring an animal with wide distribution and a large population over one that—at least so far—has barely escaped extinction."

Commentary: Can the Sierra Nevada bighorn dodge extinction? It may mean reining in another wild animal

The high peaks of the southern and central Sierra Nevada are home to a unique and endangered animal, the Sierra Nevada bighorn sheep. John Muir called them "the bravest of all the Sierra mountaineers," and indeed they have weathered both ancient and modern climate extremes, human-introduced...

phys.org

Thanks!

 

[Yoder]

That study shows that lions are more likely to kill infected deer than human hunters. It also states that deer killed by vehicles have similar odds of having CWD as deer killed by lions...surely we agree that isn't targeted?

I'm not disputing that lions kill some deer with CWD, but I do not think they would pass a healthy deer to go find one with CWD. It's not like they pick and choose...it just so happens to be that way.

I would think it's more opportunity than anything. They may kill wore CWD infected deer just because they are impaired. In late stages, they would be easy to kill. It's not like they can smell CWD and hunt those animals specifically. Also, hunters are probably going to let a sick deer walk. I wouldn't eat a deer that looked sick. They may be statistically correct, but they mislead the reader. Letting cat ladies vote on this issue is ridiculous. These things should all be left to real biologists.