Creedmoor for Brown Bear Hunt

[thinhorn_AK]

Stuff like this seems interesting because the laws self filter some.

If a guide isn’t gonna allow it, and you have to have a guide, well…

So it really leaves Alaska natives to be the ones that we are asking I guess. I remember a guy causing a fuss on reddit about hunting polar bears with a 243 all his life

I’ll never hunt that hunt, but it’s interesting to think about. I believe I remember seeing Alaska fish and wildlife recommending 270 and 30-06

These stories need to stop. Yes there are lots of rifles chambered in smaller cartridges in the villages, the hunting practices are often questionable and you only hear the one success story, not the dozens of stories of lost animals or moose that took 15 bullets to die, or caribou that were so blasted up there was nothing left to harvest.

When I first moved to AK I believed all the stories too. Not anymore.

 

[One300wsm]

These stories need to stop. Yes there are lots of rifles chambered in smaller cartridges in the villages, the hunting practices are often questionable and you only hear the one success story, not the dozens of stories of lost animals or moose that took 15 bullets to die, or caribou that were so blasted up there was nothing left to harvest.

When I first moved to AK I believed all the stories too. Not anymore.

Thank you Sir sincerely

 

[DangerRanger]

These stories need to stop. Yes there are lots of rifles chambered in smaller cartridges in the villages, the hunting practices are often questionable and you only hear the one success story, not the dozens of stories of lost animals or moose that took 15 bullets to die, or caribou that were so blasted up there was nothing left to harvest.

When I first moved to AK I believed all the stories too. Not anymore.

My apologies

 

[thinhorn_AK]

My apologies

Nothing to apologize for but I can all but guarantee that 99% of the people telling these stories have never even been to s village or spent much time hunting with the locals.

People romanticize when whole “natives use 223s and 243s” yet they are trying to form opinions based one just one part of the story. Yes there are 243s in villages, there are also a TON of 338s and 300s. Hell the most serious “traditional” native hunter I know uses a 300wm.

The thing nobody talks about is how the locals are largely unregulated by the law or fish and game out in villages, my friend was the warden of the area and wouldn’t even bother in villages because it’s not like you are going to write s ticket and the guy is going to stop hunting.

Here’s a true story: I was working and living in a village of around 100 people back in 2016, I got in with the locals pretty quick and made friends with a bunch of them. I got invited out on a snowmachine caribou hunt which I was really excited about. I had a Kimber 308 and we headed out on a large river. Within a few hours we were on caribou, I was with 5 other guys who all had AR15s. We came around a bend into a small heard of about 100 animals. The guys I was with just started emptying their guns into the heard, it was horrifying. There were wounded animas, dead calf’s, blood trails going every direction. I bet 60 rounds were fired and about 5 animals killed.

They made no effort to track wounded animals and don’t want to wart bullets finishing off wonder animals, it was terrible. That evening they didn’t even want to deal with animals so they stacked bodies on a porch, the next morning 3 of the caribou had been dragged off by dogs and no effort was made to recover them.

All those guys I was with seemed to think that was normal, they also talked a lot about how good their 223 is and how it’s all you need.

People who never lived in places like that hear: the natives use 223s so it’s all you need.

 

[yeti14]

I live and play on the ABC islands in SEAK. All I will say is my friends and I are not bumbling around in the woods with small caliber rifles. A broadside stalk is not the same as an unexpected face to face in the alders. Plan accordingly.

 

[DangerRanger]

What is the biggest concern as far as caliber/construction for hunting the big coastal bears? Breaking through bone during a charge?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

What is the biggest concern as far as caliber/construction for hunting the big coastal bears? Breaking through bone during a charge?

That and the possibility of having to shoot through brush.

 

[DangerRanger]

That and the possibility of having to shoot through brush.

Deflections I assume? Is the difference mostly caliber, weight, bullet shape?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Bullets, of any weight or shape, don’t reliably push through brush to the point where I consider it anything more than an emergency shot.

I’ve tested deflection on blackberry bushes and similar-sized weeds with “traditional brush-busting cartridges” and the theory just doesn’t match reality. You aren’t getting any kind of precision results shooting through even light cover.

Edit - that doesn’t mean I am going to treat “concealment” as “cover” if I am on a two-way range. But enough bullets will deflect enough that any shot through brush is a chancy proposition. The thicker the brush, or the further it is from the animal, the lower the odds of a precise shot.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Q_Sertorious is right. Based on all the testing I've seen, the best brush bullets are the ones that don't contact anything. If you hit a twig, they all deflect, even the largest diameter bullets. If the goal is to shoot through brush and hit something, smaller bullets are better.

Now, when it comes to bullet construction, that makes a difference. For example, a deflected Varmint Grenade or V-MAX has a lower chance of penetrating vitals than a Barnes Triple Shock or Nosler Partition.

I'm not saying a .17 Remington is the best brush cartridge for big game, but it's important to know that more mass does not equate to more forgiveness when shooting through grass or brush. The best brush gun would be a 10-gauge loaded with small TSS pellets.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Q_Sertorious is right. Based on all the testing I've seen, the best brush bullets are the ones that don't contact anything. If you hit a twig, they all deflect, even the largest diameter bullets. If the goal is to shoot through brush and hit something, smaller bullets are better.

Now, when it comes to bullet construction, that makes a difference. For example, a deflected Varmint Grenade or V-MAX has a lower chance of penetrating vitals than a Barnes Triple Shock or Nosler Partition.

I'm not saying a .17 Remington is the best brush cartridge for big game, but it's important to know that more mass does not equate to more forgiveness when shooting through grass or brush. The best brush gun would be a 10-gauge loaded with small TSS pellets.

A shot in brush would be from like 10 feet away. Im not talking about taking a longer shot into brush.

 

[Choupique]

the best brush bullets are the ones that don't contact anything

I always wanted to do some formal testing on this. Obviously there's some difference. A 2,200 pound 16" battleship shell hitting a twig won't deflect much and a .17 hmr will, so it would be cool to understand the differences between something like a .338 win mag and a .223, if there is any meaningful difference.

 

[StupidLightweight]

A shot in brush would be from like 10 feet away. Im not talking about taking a longer shot into brush.

I get that. It would be close shots.

However, distance from shooter to obstacle doesn't matter. What matters is the distance from brush to the target. The further this is, the more deflection can occur.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I get that. It would be close shots.

However, distance from shooter to obstacle doesn't matter. What matters is the distance from brush to the target. The further this is, the more deflection can occur.

Yes I agree I, I'm definitely not thinking about shooting through 10 feet of brush.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I've just seen multiple statements lately from 22 cal to 6.5 being adequate/ethical etc for anything In North America. Just was wondering if those ones making that statement are actually grabbing their 22-250, 6mm etc when going after big browns. Not trying to argue over weather it's possible/ethical etc. Was hoping some that made the statement would chime in. @glock233 was one of them. Thanks for the response, that's all I was wondering. For myself, I'd prefer to have at least a 270 or 30-06 or something a little bigger that I can shoot well. The little bullets can obviously kill stuff very well but where are guys drawing the line and stepping up to something bigger?

You realize that a .270 is only .013" bigger in diameter than a 6.5 (.264") right? For that matter a .30-06 is only .044" bigger in diameter as well. IIRC, the 6.5 PRC is slightly faster than the .270 with similar bullet weights. The point is, folks shouldn't get so caught up in calibers as the cartridge is more important.

I noticed a new power factor was introduced in this thread that we need to consider. The "Grit" factor. How is this one measured? What is the minimum "Grit" factor needed to kill coastal brown bears compared to elk? For that matter, let's use a "well-known" and "flawless" gold standard measurement. How much energy is needed to kill a coastal brown?

 

[Antares]

How did you convince it to die without adequate Knockdown Power™? Did you play a trick on it so it didn't know the bullet should have bounced off of it? A riddle, perhaps?

You're heading towards a cease and desist letter if you don't layoff on using my trademarked materiel.

 

[Billogna]

By my figures you'd need a minimum energy rating that is twice the weight of target animal. This is for herbivores. If we're talking about more determined species multiply that number by ratio of how much faster the animal is than you.

 

[glock233]

By my figures you'd need a minimum energy rating that is twice the weight of target animal. This is for herbivores. If we're talking about more determined species multiply that number by ratio of how much faster the animal is than you.

Energy is meaningless. Just because you can calculate something doesn’t mean it matters.

 

[grfox92]

By my figures you'd need a minimum energy rating that is twice the weight of target animal. This is for herbivores. If we're talking about more determined species multiply that number by ratio of how much faster the animal is than you.

What is an energy rating? Who determines it? Where does it come from? What bullet manufacturer cites energy as a metric required?

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

 

[Billogna]

Energy is meaningless. Just because you can calculate something doesn’t mean it matters.

Being able to calculate wallop is in itself a refined art! And is immeasurably meaningful for these purposes.