CPW seeks input, allocation of licenses

[Gerbdog]

Colorado residents account for 66.8 percent of those big-game hunting days. However, visitors spend much more money per day, nearly twice as much, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife found.

Good to look at the numbers for sure, i wonder how much of that is just wrapped up in the tag costs, awful big difference between resident cost and NR cost just in the tag which probably doubles their cost per day just right there. Eye opening how much a hunter spends per day to hunt here, i have to imagine that must include gear costs? I cant imagine how you end up at 253.67 a day, except maybe a NR rolling in and hunting for 5 days, heck just the cost of gas and the tag will get you there i guess.

Maybe its the difference in where i hunt since there arent really any motels or places to eat around for hours but i mostly see everyone (NR and Res) bringing in their 4 season tents / RVs and setting up for 3 weeks at a time, food already brought in from out of state in coolers and gas for their side by sides in extra canisters. Same folks, same place, a week early, every year.... tradition you might say.

 

[tdhanses]

Good to look at the numbers for sure, i wonder how much of that is just wrapped up in the tag costs, awful big difference between resident cost and NR cost just in the tag which probably doubles their cost per day just right there. Eye opening how much a hunter spends per day to hunt here, i have to imagine that must include gear costs? I cant imagine how you end up at 253.67 a day, except maybe a NR rolling in and hunting for 5 days, heck just the cost of gas and the tag will get you there i guess.

Maybe its the difference in where i hunt since there arent really any motels or places to eat around for hours but i mostly see everyone (NR and Res) bringing in their 4 season tents / RVs and setting up for 3 weeks at a time, food already brought in from out of state in coolers and gas for their side by sides in extra canisters. Same folks, same place, a week early, every year.... tradition you might say.

Don’t forget food and hotel, I’m sure many NR stay in hotels and road hunt or drive to a new trailhead each day. Taking an RV increases costs as well but not sure you can allocate all of that to the CO economy.

 

[CoStick]

This is from 2018 and the revenue has gone up since then from changes in licenses etc. The part where non-residents spend almost twice as much per day as residents seemed important to this discussion.

$1.8 BILLION A YEAR

Colorado Parks and Wildlife hired Southwick Associates to quantify the economic contributions of outdoor recreation in Colorado, including hunting.

The study found that hunters and fishermen generate $1.8 billion every year for Colorado’s economy, up from $845 million in 2004. That supports 21,000 jobs across Colorado.

It may or may not surprise you to learn that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife found that almost as many people want to watch wildlife as they want to shoot it. Wildlife watching generated $1.2 billion and supports 12,800 jobs.

Big-game hunting is Colorado’s most popular form of hunting among both residents and visitors.

Across Colorado, big-game hunters spend 1,490,818 days in the field, the study found. Almost half of that, 671,700, or 45 percent, is in the northwest region, which includes Eagle County and most of the Central Rockies resort region.

Colorado residents account for 66.8 percent of those big-game hunting days. However, visitors spend much more money per day, nearly twice as much, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife found.

Hunters also spend more per day than non-motorized snowsports participants: $253.67 a day for hunters and $118.32 for non-motorized snowsports participants.

It looks like a huge number on it’s own, but when you look collectively at the whole outdoors/tourists pie, it isn’t that big of piece.

 

[Mosby]

It looks like a huge number on it’s own, but when you look collectively at the whole outdoors/tourists pie, it isn’t that big of piece.

The major cities and ski resorts could care less about hunting and the collective numbers include places like Aspen, Breckenridge etc., which is why they are large numbers. A majority of hunters and their revenue goes to much smaller towns and those businesses in places like Rifle and Meeker in NW Colorado. People in those focused areas get much of the benefit and its a big deal to businesses and politicians in those areas.

 

[CoStick]

The major cities and ski resorts could care less about hunting and the collective numbers include places like Aspen, Breckenridge etc., which is why they are large numbers. A majority of hunters and their revenue goes to much smaller towns and those businesses in places like Rifle and Meeker in NW Colorado. People in those focused areas get much of the benefit and its a big deal to businesses and politicians in those areas.

Nobody is going to eliminate NR hunting, but I spend a good amount of time in NW CO and other recreational activities are picking up and I have had a hard time booking places in those area for family ice fishing trips. Colorado is busy even in the NW. At the end of the day each year hunting revenue is less important, time to be smart about it.

 

[Poser]

Is it CPW’s mission to provide shoulder season revenue streams for hotels, VRBOs, restaurants, liquor stores and gas stations?
The answer is obviously “no”

Let’s face it, the only industry that is 100% built around hunting is outfitting and the vast majority of outfitter employees are seasonal, part time and tip, not wage, dependent.
In CO, seasonal, part time, tip dependent jobs are a dime a dozen. The numbers above indicate that peripheral hunting revenue supports 20,000 jobs. There are currently 90,000 open jobs in CO.

Ask me how little I care to hear people crying that some seasonal, part time, largely tip dependent jobs might have to find a different seasonal, part time, tip dependent job because Chad and Brad from PA can’t draw a tag every year.

If anything, post archery hunting season In CO is a respite from all of the tourists. It’s the one time a year you get a break and can find a parking spot at the grocery store on the first lap. It’s the one time a year you can actually get a barstool at your local watering hole. (I say “post archery” because September is still pretty full on with all of the recreational tourism.) the nearly 2 weeks between archery and first rifle this year, the town I live in was at 100% hotel occupancy. Completely booked solid with no big game hunting season open with the exception of goat.

There is this Omnipresent idea that NR hunters have about their revenue streams that is just not inline with reality. Why do you think that CO residents keep emphasizing over and over again how much bigger other forms of NR tourism dollars are than hunting? With a few exceptions, You are shoulder season revenue for small businesses and, tags not withstanding, little more. Even if NR tags were reduced by half, quality outfitters would remain booked out. I know it feels like it’s a lot because you actually spend a lot by the metrics of your own wallet, but it’s actually not “a lot” in the bigger picture.

 

[Mosby]

There is this Omnipresent idea that NR hunters have about their revenue streams that is just not inline with reality. Why do you think that CO residents keep emphasizing over and over again how much bigger other forms of NR tourism dollars are than hunting? With a few exceptions, You are shoulder season revenue for small businesses and, tags not withstanding, little more. Even if NR tags were reduced by half, quality outfitters would remain booked out. I know it feels like it’s a lot because you actually spend a lot by the metrics of your own wallet, but it’s actually not “a lot” in the bigger picture.

I think most are trying to compare resident to non resident revenue not hunting to every other industry that Colorado makes money off of. The amount of revenue NR hunters generate compared to resident hunters is significant. Compared to the skiing and convention industries no. Regardless, it is what it is. I get it. A lot of people in Colorado don't want NR hunters and don't feel the need for them. I don't know about anyone else, but it doesn't impact me all that much either way.

I am pheasant hunting right now in Iowa. Leaving for South Dakota in the morning for more pheasant hunting with my GSP. When I get back I am going to go deer hunting. When I get done with deer hunting, I will come back to Iowa and South Dakota for more pheasant hunting into early January, weather permitting. Most states make it easy to buy a license and go hunting and places like South Dakota, seem to like out of state hunters. When I don't draw a Colorado elk tag, I hunt something else, somewhere else but thats me. Life's too short.

 

[CoStick]

I think most are trying to compare resident to non resident revenue not hunting to every other industry that Colorado makes money off of. The amount of revenue NR hunters generate compared to resident hunters is significant. Compared to the skiing and convention industries no. Regardless, it is what it is. I get it. A lot of people in Colorado don't want NR hunters and don't feel the need for them. I don't know about anyone else, but it doesn't impact me all that much either way.

I am pheasant hunting right now in Iowa. Leaving for South Dakota in the morning for more pheasant hunting with my GSP. When I get back I am going to go deer hunting. When I get done with deer hunting, I will come back to Iowa and South Dakota for more pheasant hunting into early January, weather permitting. Most states make it easy to buy a license and go hunting and places like South Dakota, seem to like out of state hunters. When I don't draw a Colorado elk tag, I hunt something else, somewhere else but thats me. Life's too short.

Would be great to have OTC Iowa NR deer tags. I bet the local economies would benefit greatly.

 

[timekiller13]

We always love a good story!!

Not much to tell, honestly.

Had a deer tag for unit that I filled about 1 hour into opening day. Had a cow tag for good for 12,13, 23, 24. Drove down to those units on day 2 of the season. Spent 5 hours just trying to find a place to PARK! Access points were overflowing. Counted over 70 vehicles at one large access point. And I can’t figure out how people get their 5th wheels and horse trailers into these places. Drove down one ROUGH rutted out road for a few miles, creeping at 3 mph (I wasn’t towing anything), only to get to the end and see 9 5th wheels and a dozen horse trailers.

What little time I spent in the woods was nothing but running from ATVs and trying to avoid the droves of hunters. One morning I walked into an area, set up to glass and as day broke, subsequently counted 14 orange vests within a mile of me.

Walked into another area that was marked foot and horse traffic only, while walking in, had a group of 8 on ATVs zoom by me.

Lesson learned. I will never hunt those GMUs again.

 

[Poser]

I think most are trying to compare resident to non resident revenue not hunting to every other industry that Colorado makes money off of. The amount of revenue NR hunters generate compared to resident hunters is significant. Compared to the skiing and convention industries no. Regardless, it is what it is. I get it. A lot of people in Colorado don't want NR hunters and don't feel the need for them.

.

I till believe the point that “NRs spend more than RD” should be contextualized:

NRs spend more per day *while on their hunting vacation*, likely an average length of 7 days. So, while on vacation for 7 days, an average NR Hunter may spend ~$1600, yet the average CO resident spends around $4,000 per month just to live in the state. So, if we are basing the argument on the idea of “whoever spends more should get tag allocation preference,” then there is no debate. Mind you, that is an absurd argument, but that is the argument being presented over and over again:

NRs: “we spend vacation money, therefore, we deserve equal access to tags.”

Residents:”it’s expensive AF to live here, We deserve weighted, preferential access to tags”

 

[tdhanses]

Is it CPW’s mission to provide shoulder season revenue streams for hotels, VRBOs, restaurants, liquor stores and gas stations?
The answer is obviously “no”

Let’s face it, the only industry that is 100% built around hunting is outfitting and the vast majority of outfitter employees are seasonal, part time and tip, not wage, dependent.
In CO, seasonal, part time, tip dependent jobs are a dime a dozen. The numbers above indicate that peripheral hunting revenue supports 20,000 jobs. There are currently 90,000 open jobs in CO.

Ask me how little I care to hear people crying that some seasonal, part time, largely tip dependent jobs might have to find a different seasonal, part time, tip dependent job because Chad and Brad from PA can’t draw a tag every year.

If anything, post archery hunting season In CO is a respite from all of the tourists. It’s the one time a year you get a break and can find a parking spot at the grocery store on the first lap. It’s the one time a year you can actually get a barstool at your local watering hole. (I say “post archery” because September is still pretty full on with all of the recreational tourism.) the nearly 2 weeks between archery and first rifle this year, the town I live in was at 100% hotel occupancy. Completely booked solid with no big game hunting season open with the exception of goat.

There is this Omnipresent idea that NR hunters have about their revenue streams that is just not inline with reality. Why do you think that CO residents keep emphasizing over and over again how much bigger other forms of NR tourism dollars are than hunting? With a few exceptions, You are shoulder season revenue for small businesses and, tags not withstanding, little more. Even if NR tags were reduced by half, quality outfitters would remain booked out. I know it feels like it’s a lot because you actually spend a lot by the metrics of your own wallet, but it’s actually not “a lot” in the bigger picture.

Very well said, truthfully if CO cut out 25% of the tags it gives out across the board, increased resident fees to what NR fees were 15 years ago and match NR fees to WY you would see a better overall picture for wildlife and less resident and NR pressure.

Remove all the local economy thoughts and look at growing the health of the wildlife and creating better opportunities for all, in the end it needs to be a pay to play system as hunter numbers are out growing area available.

I know people never want to hear reducing NR opportunities but in the end people will decide if they really like hunting or if it’s just another side hobby of which I’m sure it is to many residents and NR.

Keep youth hunting affordable but adults need to pay to play and in reality this goes for all western states.

 

[tdhanses]

Would be great to have OTC Iowa NR deer tags. I bet the local economies would benefit greatly.

Iowa is overrated, no elk.

 

[cnelk]

Hmmm... Wyoming towns seem to be doing fine during hunting season with all limited tags....

 

[tdhanses]

I till believe the point that “NRs spend more than RD” should be contextualized:

NRs spend more per day *while on their hunting vacation*, likely an average length of 7 days. So, while on vacation for 7 days, an average NR Hunter may spend ~$1600, yet the average CO resident spends around $4,000 per month just to live in the state. So, if we are basing the argument on the idea of “whoever spends more should get tag allocation preference,” then there is no debate. Mind you, that is an absurd argument, but that is the argument being presented over and over again:

NRs: “we spend vacation money, therefore, we deserve equal access to tags.”

Residents:”it’s expensive AF to live here, We deserve weighted, preferential access to tags”

I think the main thinking is what percentage of revenue makes up CPW budget, R or NR. In reality Residents on their own haven’t had to contribute much to the actual management of wildlife by funding CPW, hence NR arguments.

I also think the majority of resident hunters wouldn’t want to pay a couple hundred per tag to reduce NR pressure, yes maybe here on Rokslide they would but in reality any R or NR here are a tiny portion of the hunting public and we can’t really get an accurate feel if people are willing to open their wallets for a better experience or just complain and do nothing.

 

[tdhanses]

Hmmm... Wyoming towns seem to be doing fine during hunting season with all limited tags....

Yeah but you constantly hear WY residents say they are pretty much a poor state with crappy wages and high prices, maybe they could use more dollars.

 

[cnelk]

Sooner or later, the 'Quiet Time' will have to have some more seasons to support the increasing number of hunters.

There's two full weeks of no elk hunting that could be used for something!

Hell, make more seasons for the high PP holders like they did in 61.

 

[tdhanses]

Sooner or later, the 'Quiet Time' will have to have some more seasons to support the increasing number of hunters.

There's two full weeks of no elk hunting that could be used for something!

Hell, make more seasons for the high PP holders like they did in 61.

Do you know of any other state with a quiet time?

Truthfully I’d like to see CO turn all OTC units to draw, maybe make it a shoe in but make people pick a unit.

 

[cnelk]

Do you know of any other state with a quiet time?

Truthfully I’d like to see CO turn all OTC units to draw, maybe make it a shoe in but make people pick a unit.

If I remember correctly, Wyoming is 'rifle cow only' Oct 1-15. Thats the only 'Quieter Time' I know of

Even if the CPW went to draw for specific DAUs would be an improvement - I mean, they have the roadmap from what they did in SW Colorado

 

[tdhanses]

If I remember correctly, Wyoming is 'rifle cow only' Oct 1-15. Thats the only 'Quieter Time' I know of

Even if the CPW went to draw for specific DAUs would be an improvement - I mean, they have the roadmap from what they did in SW Colorado

I also think they need to do away with all either sex tags, even if just for NR.

 

[CoStick]

I think the main thinking is what percentage of revenue makes up CPW budget, R or NR. In reality Residents on their own haven’t had to contribute much to the actual management of wildlife by funding CPW, hence NR arguments.

I also think the majority of resident hunters wouldn’t want to pay a couple hundred per tag to reduce NR pressure, yes maybe here on Rokslide they would but in reality any R or NR here are a tiny portion of the hunting public and we can’t really get an accurate feel if people are willing to open their wallets for a better experience or just complain and do nothing.

Tags and licenses, fishing included make up around 50% of CPW revenue.