CPW seeks input, allocation of licenses

[Blackcats06]

All BS aside, we need to consider options. Last thing anyone wants, is to end up like Utah, or AZ, and not be able to hunt your own state as a resident with any kind of regularity. The reality is, elk are the only real issue in CO in terms of crowding. Everything else is pretty flipping good.

A couple options I've expressed for elk.

- OTC Caps, starting January. If you want to hunt, step up and get your tag then.

- OTC for residents, draw for all NR

- Special tags for NR like WY does. If you want to make up the revenue gap, limit tags, put so many in a "Special category" and charge for it. 100 tags in a unit, 50% go special, charge 1k, bang, big revenue generator and they will sell out.

I’ll take a late az bull tag every 5 years over a Colorado otc tag every year. Colorados elk hunting SUCKS

 

[Fatcamp]

Get a tag=Lose your points. Seems like that would solve most of it.

 

[AndyB]

Careful what you wish for boys, lest your hunting is destroyed from within, divide and conquer and all that.
Not enough hunters....Too many hunters...

As a non res alien I am truly thankful for the opportunities I have had to hunt Elk in your state. Something I could never do here, or ever thought I would.

I have tried to make a trip every other year since 2008, it motivates me throughout the year in lots of ways. I havent taged yet, an opportunity or two every year but things just not lined up yet.

In the five or six trips I have had I have only crossed paths with another hunter twice while actually hunting. There are a few camps at the trail head, and outfitters pack people into the area but as I said only met or heard other hunters on two occasions. Space is something you guys are not short of, believe me.

I have already booked a flight for 22 as its been a while with all thats been going on, to think that I may soon not be able to do the otc thing in the future is depressing.

Its your decision re the res, non-res thing but just make sure you are not being used, make sure you consider the bigger picture and the real threats to hunting.
Best regards.

 

[MikeColorado]

An OTC cap would be interesting. The area we hunt was packed for rifle one last week.

 

[Finn16]

An OTC cap would be interesting. The area we hunt was packed for rifle one last week.

Maybe I'm not reading your post right but how would a cap on OTC cut down on the number of hunters in 1st rifle?

 

[cnelk]

^^^ Wondering the same - Plus 1st Rifle is already a limited drawing

 

[MikeColorado]

Maybe I'm not reading your post right but how would a cap on OTC cut down on the number of hunters in 1st rifle?

You're right, I confused OTC with the leftover/secondary process. My bad.

 

[Grant K]

They tried to enforce it on non-consumptive users but gave up once they had a few complaints.

The worst part of the habitat stamp, hunters pay it and the state uses the money for Fishers Peak State Wildlife Area and then they manage it for non-hunting recreation.

Hunters also get screwed on the Search and Rescue fees. Non-hunters don't have to pay it and get all the benefits anyway.

On the bright side for CPW is that parks passes are now a part of Vehicle registration so with some luck that should help with the funding issues that parks cause... but it is a government agency so I'm not holding my breath... Non-hunting recreationalist are subject to the same fees as hunters for accessing SWA's so I don't see that hunters are unfairly supporting access to public lands?

And is $.25 per license really breaking us for SAR? you can look at the breakdown of this, COSAR cards account for about 1/4 of the revenue, and fishing licenses are close to half, so I don't think it's fair to say that hunters have an unfair burden... As someone on a small local SAR team that would quickly be broke if we were not able to be reimbursed for expenses incurred during rescues I'll keep happily paying my less than $2 a year...

As far as the survey... am I the only one that thinks that it's unlikely that resident hunters are going to come out of this with a better deal? The CPW can't even update what it considers "High demand" hunt codes, it is based on numbers from over a decade ago! if even something so easy to update get's ignored I doubt sweeping changes will be made, and if they are I wouldnt bet on it being for the bettter.

To be fair, CO is good at what it is trying to be, an opportunity state, I think all the CO hunters who are gung ho on limiting nonresidents should think about the ramifications of that if you hunt other states...think picking up a WY general tag is tough now? wait until you put 10,000 people who didn't get a CO OTC capped tag into the pot...the cascade across all the other easy-to-get elk tags would get ugly fast.

 

[Smada962]

To be fair, CO is good at what it is trying to be, an opportunity state, I think all the CO hunters who are gung ho on limiting nonresidents should think about the ramifications of that if you hunt other states...think picking up a WY general tag is tough now? wait until you put 10,000 people who didn't get a CO OTC capped tag into the pot...the cascade across all the other easy-to-get elk tags would get ugly fast.

This was a thought I had also. I'm all for limiting tags in some fashion, but the more they limit them the more of a ripple affect it will have elsewhere. All these others states are already much harder to get tags now with no slow down in sight, and that with CO being unlimited OTC.

 

[arock]

I think the biggest problem is that they are trying to address anecdotal complaints with garbage data. And giving up a lot of expensive non resident tags probably isn't high on the list of priorities.

They have no idea how many hunters are where, when and successful or unsuccessful. They need to implement some type of mandatory reporting - even for OTC.
-Any hunt should be reported as successful or unsuccessful + days hunted
-OTC hunts should be reported the same with the unit or units and dates that those were specifically hunted.

This doesn't solve the problem immediately but at least the hunter vs success counts would be very close to accurate (I'm sure there are some bozos who wouldn't report the unit they were actually in - and they could make money by fining people who didn't report on time) so that they could make data driven decisions that, in my opinion, would yeild more accurate results theirn their +\- 95% margin of error nonsense they spit out.

There is absolutely no need to extrapolate some complicated statistical analysis regarding hunter success in 2021.

Just about every resident is going to reply that the resident\non resident split is preposterous and that there are too many people in their unit. Which in some cases is correct but in others it is exaggerated. Just because you see other hunters doesn't mean its 'crowded'.

 

[tdhanses]

I gave them my view, truthfully residents need to pay 3 or 4 times what they do for all tags now, especially if nonresident opportunities decrease. In reality all western states need to stop looking to nonresidents to prop up their wildlife management and put it on residents.

I wonder if they are watching WY and their proposals to go 90/10.

I will say CO does get pressure, only reason I hunt there is proximity to my home state and that I own a property in CO, if it becomes difficult to get a license I’ll probably stop hunting there and play the points game in a few states and just hunt MT every year. But I’m lucky in that I can get a tag in MT without going through the draw so am guaranteed a tag every year for 50% of the NR price, just don’t use it since CO is much closer.

 

[Buffalorider]

Most of the resident hunters that I know in SW Colorado would quit hunting if they had to pay $600 for a tag. They think I’m crazy for the money I spend to hunt with them every year.


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[Poser]

Most of the resident hunters that I know in SW Colorado would quit hunting if they had to pay $600 for a tag. They think I’m crazy for the money I spend to hunt with them every year.


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I don’t think there is any reason to believe that residents will be paying $600 for elk tags anytime in the immediate future. I believe the discussion earlier in this thread showed the mathematical sense of a ~$130 resident tag, which is certainly not unreasonable by modern standards.

 

[CoStick]

As a resident I would gladly pay $600 to limit capacity and extend some seasons.

 

[tdhanses]

I don’t think there is any reason to believe that residents will be paying $600 for elk tags anytime in the immediate future. I believe the discussion earlier in this thread showed the mathematical sense of a ~$130 resident tag, which is certainly not unreasonable by modern standards.

Truthfully in modern times a resident shouldn’t even complain if each tag was $250+, that is eating out a few times each year and not crazy expensive. Those that hunting truly is a priority to probably wouldn’t bat an eye as it would also reduce resident pressure from those not as serious. It would meet the budget and probably drop 30%+ of residents out of hunting.

The biggest issue we have is as we reduce opportunities we also move closer to ending hunting long term as people move away from it.

 

[Poser]

Truthfully in modern times a resident shouldn’t even complain if each tag was $250+, that is eating out a few times each year and not crazy expensive. Those that hunting truly is a priority to probably wouldn’t bat an eye as it would also reduce resident pressure from those not as serious. It would meet the budget and probably drop 30%+ of residents out of hunting.

The biggest issue we have is as we reduce opportunities we also move closer to ending hunting long term as people move away from it.

I don’t disagree with the $250 range for an R elk tag. That being said, I’m unsure if reducing NR opportunity has an real effect on long term hunting numbers. Few, if any NRs, are relying on CO NR elk tags, particularly OTC tags, as their only outlet for hunting. On the front of NRs and hunting opportunity, it’s up to their respective states to provide ample and consistent opportunity. If the CPW has a mission to foster and provide longevity in hunting numbers, that should be focused on resident programs: hunting mentorships, safety courses and outreach. The state game agency can’t be expected to carry the torch of nationwide hunting numbers. Furthermore, any NR that is fanatical enough about CO hunting opportunities can always consider relocating and becoming a resident. That’s what I did and at least 2 of my current hunting partners did the same.

 

[ColoradoV]

Both resident and non resident should expect a 2-3x cost of license increase. No worries here still a fair deal.

Then you only have to double the price of NR and Res lip rippin tickets and that will basically cover the revenue difference needed for a 90-10 split.. Again still a fair deal..

Time for the knot tiers to step up….

 

[tdhanses]

I don’t disagree with the $250 range for an R elk tag. That being said, I’m unsure if reducing NR opportunity has an real effect on long term hunting numbers. Few, if any NRs, are relying on CO NR elk tags, particularly OTC tags, as their only outlet for hunting. On the front of NRs and hunting opportunity, it’s up to their respective states to provide ample and consistent opportunity. If the CPW has a mission to foster and provide longevity in hunting numbers, that should be focused on resident programs: hunting mentorships, safety courses and outreach. The state game agency can’t be expected to carry the torch of nationwide hunting numbers. Furthermore, any NR that is fanatical enough about CO hunting opportunities can always consider relocating and becoming a resident. That’s what I did and at least 2 of my current hunting partners did the same.

I was thinking more if pricing goes up enough that it pushes away residents hunters, I wouldn’t consider the NR in this but at $250 a tag you would probably see 30%+ residents stop hunting or maybe only hunt one species a year.

Personally I might sell my place in CO and buy in WY looking long term.

 

[tdhanses]

Both resident and non resident should expect a 2-3x cost of license increase. No worries here still a fair deal.

Then you only have to double the price of NR and Res lip rippin tickets and that will basically cover the revenue difference needed for a 90-10 split.. Again still a fair deal..

Time for the knot tiers to step up….

Personally CO doesn’t have the quality to increase the NR tags any further, maybe they will try it but I think they’ll see a sharp decline from NR which is fine. Heck I’d be ok only hunting bear in CO as long as it’s a $100 tag still.

What’s funny is many units don’t even get enough resident applications to meet the current resident % as it is and no I won’t point these units out.

 

[CoStick]

Personally CO doesn’t have the quality to increase the NR tags any further, maybe they will try it but I think they’ll see a sharp decline from NR which is fine. Heck I’d be ok only hunting bear in CO as long as it’s a $100 tag still.

What’s funny is many units don’t even get enough resident applications to meet the current resident % as it is and no I won’t point these units out.

It is opportunity cost, where else can NR go elk hunting every year? They will pay.