Corner Crossing (is any hunter against it?)

[204guy]

200 posts still not a single post against that's not a ridiculous red herring or greed. Not a single link to a state law or case showing it's illegal. Couple landowners adamantly opposed that don't even understand what it is though, not sure what to think of that.

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[NoWiser]

Hi Bob - I'm not sure your angle here. It is illegal in WY to corner cross, at least that's what the GW told me when I talked to him.

Dig deeper. That game warden is also not allowed to arrest you for corner crossing.

 

[magnum44270]

I get why people think it should be allowed but tell me how you get from corner to corner without crossing private land. You can't do it without setting foot on private land. Even tougher is when you have an animal you harvested. How are you getting it back? How are you getting corner to corner? Crossing right over the corner? How is that physically feasible? Right there at the fence but a few steps onto private land? Stepping on the fence? The wire at a corner is going to be pretty tight. Going a few fenceposts down even more onto private? Say a series of stairs is erected to get from corner to corner, I would be okay with that but again, getting the animal back poses a problem.

I hear it. In theory corner crossing sounds like no big deal. But i think private property rights hold pretty valid.

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place two peices of paper on the ground with corners touching...now step from one piece of paper to the other....

 

[magnum44270]

My dude. The person isn’t on your land.

EXACTLY!

 

[SCOH]

I think in cases where both parcels are owned /managed by the government, and one is not able to be accessed in any other way, then corner crossing should be legal

If it is just a matter of convenience, I think it should not be legal

 

[NoWiser]

I think in cases where both parcels are owned /managed by the government, and one is not able to be accessed in any other way, then corner crossing should be legal

If it is just a matter of convenience, I think it should not be legal

Shouldn't matter. If it's legal, it's legal.

 

[SCOH]

Shouldn't matter. If it's legal, it's legal.

I guess I'm more in favor of the government obtaining an easement of sorts in this situations

It's a challenging issue...

I want as much public access as possible, but I also believe in personal property rights..... A tough balance for certain

 

[NoWiser]

I guess I'm more in favor of the government obtaining an easement of sorts in this situations

It's a challenging issue...

I want as much public access as possible, but I also believe in personal property rights..... A tough balance for certain

Gotcha. If you're talking easements that makes sense.

 

[wapitibob]

Hi Bob - I'm not sure your angle here. It is illegal in WY to corner cross, at least that's what the GW told me when I talked to him.

Talk to the game wardens boss, Chief Warden Nesvik who is now the Director of the Game and Fish. You could also email Pat Crank who was the Attorney General at the time the Wyoming Game and Fish corner crossing case was tossed out. That case is one reason why game wardens no longer cite for simply "corner crossing" from public to public. In his opinion piece on the case Crank said crossing "may" be trespassing but didn't offer a ruling because the hunter was cited under a game and fish regulation, not a state trespassing law. Crank is now a member of the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission.

 

[Schaaf]

The idea that by having a portion of your body hanging over your property while someone is corner crossing and that landowner being offended or feel like he is being trespassed on is completely ridiculous to me.

I live on a corner and have kids or families walk (not just have their arms hang over) across the corner of my lawn daily. Never once have I felt like they were trespassing. They were just trying to access the public park.

Considering we are also talking about these made up corners in the middle of nowhere makes it even more confusing to me.

 

[bcar]

There are two reasons from landowner/rancher perspectives that I can think of for why they fight to keep the current checkerboard lands and corner crossing regulations (or lack there of) the way they are.

1. The land owner is greedy. Take Elk Mountain Ranch in Carbon county Wy. The famous no trespassing signs posted at corner crossings were posted somewhere earlier in this thread. That guy and previous owners have just tried and succeeded at controlling those public lands as their own. One of the owners even managed to shut down some of the roads that go up the mountain with some bs lawsuit that said the roads interfered with ranch operations or something. The current owner has opened a HMA for cow elk on some of his deeded ground adjacent to the mountain, so he has at least made some what of a gesture to the public. I know of other ranchers in the area that will call the sheriff on every person they see that has corner crossed, and the sheriff and county attorney do prosecute for corner crossing in Carbon co. If someone tried to fight it they may win due to the lack of written regulations, but evidently it hasn't been worth fighting.

2. The more legitimate reason from ranchers stand points is protecting their operations. I know a different ranch manager in the area. He is strongly against hunting b/c he has been shot in the general direction of by people who had corner crossed into interior sections of public ground, had heards of elk come stampeding by him that had been shot at by people who had corner crossed, had cattle shot on very interior sections of public, and has tons of fence to fix every spring from heards of elk that get shot at and then run through fences. He doesn't care to much if people hunt the public sections that have road access. They're usually visible from the road or their vehicle, he knows they won't be deep into the ranch and so on. From his perspective it's much easier to buy into the anti corner crossing view.

Obviously this is a very heated issue from both sides of the argument, and it doesn't seem like there will be any solutions any time soon. I do think that re-deeding some lands would be good for the general public, but a lot of these land owners have deep pockets.

 

[87TT]

Number two sounds like an excuse for number one

 

[bcar]

Number two sounds like an excuse for number one

I see what you mean, but there's definitely a difference in mindset between the two. On large tracts of grazing leased public lands the rancher knows they're going to encounter hunters at times. The mindset of checker boarded ranchers in these areas is that they won't be encountering people in the interior sections of their grazing areas. The greedy landowner side of it is seen in ranch listings that brag about how much BLM ground is controlled by the ranch vs how much land they have to pay taxes on.

 

[dtrkyman]

I have no idea of any of the laws regarding this topic, but being able to step from one piece of public land to another without touching private sounds simple enough.

I have no issue with it, have never been in a situation where I needed or wanted to yet.

Reminds me a little of the navigable waterway issue, though those laws seem a little more clear, but there are always the arguments as to what is actually navigable. Waterfowl hunted for years on a river surrounded by preserve land with no hunting allowed, but the river was navigable and there was legal access.

 

[Vaultman]

Of course as we all know state laws may vary but here is what the BLM has to say...

5th paragraph down in this BLM Press release (Aug of 2013) link https://www.blm.gov/press-release/access-tips-hunting-blm-lands states:

"It is illegal to cross public land at corners. Some areas in the West are “checker-boarded” with public and private lands, or otherwise have sections of public land that are difficult to reach. When the only place tracts of public land touch is at a corner, it may seem like a logical thing to step over the corner from one piece of public land to another. Every year hunters armed with GPS units and maps give it a try. Unfortunately, it is illegal to cross at boundary corners."

 

[Rich M]

200 posts still not a single post against that's not a ridiculous red herring or greed. Not a single link to a state law or case showing it's illegal. Couple landowners adamantly opposed that don't even understand what it is though, not sure what to think of that.

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All you are doing is trying to stir the pot.

Just plain lazy - get off your duff and do the research. A shame some folks are allowing themselves to be manipulated.

Just go out and corner cross this fall, then let us know how it works out.

 

[204guy]

Prove me wrong I truly want to be as educated as I can. You've been rebuffed multiple times in this thread by people who's opion I place a high value on. Post some links, shouldn't be to difficult to point to some cases or any case of successful prosecution in WY or any other western state. I think, we still live in a country where you have the freedom to anything that is not explicitly illegal. Not the other way around.

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[wapitibob]

Carbon County can't produce a single case number where they prosecuted for corner crossing where the individual crossed at the corner, from public to public. The one indecent I've heard of, the individual(s) claimed they crossed at the corner but were in fact hundreds of yards away from said corner.

 

[bcar]

Carbon County can't produce a single case number where they prosecuted for corner crossing.

Wouldn't they be classified as trespassing cases vs. corner crossing? I was told by the former game warden and by a land owner that the sheriff's office will write tickets for corner crossing, so that is the basis of my comments above. I haven't tried to validate their statements, I didn't have any reason to doubt either of them at the time.

 

[wapitibob]

Yes, the deputy would cite for trespassing.
When I talked to the Chief Game Warden, the ranch I told him I was corner crossing was in carbon county. Standing next to the local game warden, looking at his map draped over the hood of his truck in a camp ground in carbon county, I showed him where I was going to cross the ### ranch and asked him what he was going to do. His reply was "nothing as long as you cross from public to public, don't hunt the private, and can show me your gps track". He also told me to record any conversations should the land owner show up and hassle me.

Best advise I can give is to call those in charge and ask questions. Every person I've called has been more than happy to talk.